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Is cussing wrong speech?
Yes - always 27%  27%  [ 7 ]
No - never 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, but only when in public 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, but only when used with anger/frustration 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
Yes, but only when with intention to do harm to another 58%  58%  [ 15 ]
Yes, but only when used around children 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 26
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 Post subject: Re: On cussing
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:58 am 
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odysseus wrote:
What do you think about racist name-calling? OK, compassion for the person is well-developed practice but I would not say that your practice or understanding is poor just because one finds such words disturbing.
Angulimala

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 Post subject: Re: On cussing
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:42 am 
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Angulimala, eh? Now I´m not disturbed but I´m not an Indian mass-murderer, I´m a novice European with "underdeveloped patience towards racism". But I will endure your abuse like "the elephant in battle enduring arrows and spears in battle" *lol*.

You may say that words have no intrinsic value (whatever you mean value) but they have a meaning which most understand. Consider this quote: "Better than a thousand hollow words are one word that brings peace". If a word can bring peace, it must have a meaning and value, not? Swear words are hollow and useless and are detrimental to progress and therefore better left behind.

Please stop these unnecessary posts of swear words, what if a child is reading this website? You´re just causing people to lose faith.

"To speak gentle words is my advice from the heart." -- Gyalwa Longchenpa

Compassion and peace!

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 Post subject: Re: On cussing
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:44 pm 
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odysseus wrote:
Dechen Norbu wrote:
Nevertheless and especially to a serious Vajrayana Buddhist, feeling offended when hearing a certain word is sign of a very poor practice and little understanding. The word, in itself, has no intrinsic value. Feeling offended or having one's "sensibility" hurt by hearing it is ridiculous to a serious practitioner. At most, if the word is spoken by someone in anger for instance, compassion should arise for such person instead of repulsion for the word itself.


What do you think about racist name-calling? OK, compassion for the person is well-developed practice but I would not say that your practice or understanding is poor just because one finds such words disturbing.

That is not cussing.
There's a difference here. Let me try to explain what I mean. If one finds disturbing that there is racism, this is not the same as feeling repulsion for a certain word that has been socially determined as inappropriate (like saying "shit!" when you hurt yourself). What disturbs you is not the word per se, but the whole idea of racism, how unfair it is, how much suffering it causes and so on. That's a whole different matter, but our reaction should be based on compassion and our actions skillful. Finding the word disturbing shows neither wisdom or compassion, because the problem is not in the word. It's in the ignorance of those uttering it, in the suffering they cause on themselves and others. There's a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: On cussing
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:21 pm 
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I think it is always unskillful. And isn't that what we mean when we call something "wrong"? The purpose is to indulge our frustrations and avoid practicing patience. Any time we are clinging to our attachments and avoiding the paramitas, it is unskillful and therefore "wrong".

(This would be a case of "Do as I say, not as I do." :emb: )

Om mani padme hum
Keith


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 Post subject: Re: On cussing
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:37 pm 
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I don't follow you. Are you saying cussing is always wrong? Or using racist words is always wrong? With the second, I agree. About the first, I have a hard time accepting that something as cussing can always be considered wrong, not mattering the circumstances.
What definitively is wrong, at least for a serious Vajrayana practitioner, is feeling offended when hearing someone cussing. I think this doesn't need explanation.


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 Post subject: Re: On cussing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:20 am 
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Ogyen wrote:
Is cussing (in any language) and the use of profanity wrong speech?

What makes "right" and what makes "wrong"?

Don't know.

:meditate:


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 Post subject: Re: On cussing
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:07 am 
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Dechen Norbu wrote:
odysseus wrote:
Dechen Norbu wrote:
Nevertheless and especially to a serious Vajrayana Buddhist, feeling offended when hearing a certain word is sign of a very poor practice and little understanding. The word, in itself, has no intrinsic value. Feeling offended or having one's "sensibility" hurt by hearing it is ridiculous to a serious practitioner. At most, if the word is spoken by someone in anger for instance, compassion should arise for such person instead of repulsion for the word itself.


What do you think about racist name-calling? OK, compassion for the person is well-developed practice but I would not say that your practice or understanding is poor just because one finds such words disturbing.

That is not cussing.
There's a difference here. Let me try to explain what I mean. If one finds disturbing that there is racism, this is not the same as feeling repulsion for a certain word that has been socially determined as inappropriate (like saying "shit!" when you hurt yourself). What disturbs you is not the word per se, but the whole idea of racism, how unfair it is, how much suffering it causes and so on. That's a whole different matter, but our reaction should be based on compassion and our actions skillful. Finding the word disturbing shows neither wisdom or compassion, because the problem is not in the word. It's in the ignorance of those uttering it, in the suffering they cause on themselves and others. There's a difference.


I understand your sentiment. But let´s remember that there is no "wrong" in Buddhism as opposed to "right". There is only Right (with a capital R) Speech as the one-and-only way with no counterpart. My take is that even cursing to yourself when hurt is idle chatter and should be avoided.

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