Samatha to See Gods.

[Son]

I'm not sure where to put this general petition for insight and sharing experience.


For a long time I have been able to feel the presence of devas in certain places, and to understand partially some of their affairs. This only refers to the devas that live parallel to us, on the lowest heavenly sphere, specifically on the surface of earth. These are devas that live in the ground, in plants and trees, and in the air. I've noticed this to be true, on certain occasions. In the house I used to live, deep in the woods, in a field across from that house was a huge round oak tree, which a pleasant deva called his own home. He enjoyed the horses and the bats, and humming in my friend's ear. He was always happy to see me, and delighted in watching over the horses, and endangered fox squirrels who dwelt amid the field with him. I always tried to ask him about learning the Dharma, and he understood little of what I said, but he still enjoyed it very much. This sparked an interest in relating to devas in a spiritual way, rather than just a neighborly way as had been my custom earlier in life. So that is why I'm posting this now.

However as some of my meditation, actually samatha, diminished, so too did my perception of these devas diminish, but my feeling for their presence (a fleeting irresolute feeling) has never gone, the same feeling that's always been there since earliest childhood. Now in this season of this later year of my life, I was taken to a secluded place in this new neighborhood I live in, by a friend, and as we proceeded through the forest path, I became aware that we were entering the earthly dwellingplace of a multitude of gods. I began to see them, first a watchman of some sort, who I bowed to and whose only response was to raise a finger to his lips. We then saw two gods in large puddles of water, gods talking to each other at a dirt crossroads, gods floating in the air above the tree tops, and so on. It was practically a village, and I was distinctly aware that a "lord" of some sort was present, since I felt his awareness of us constantly, and whenever we strayed from the area, I felt his eye over us fade. (Here we glimpsed an asura.)

Eventually my friend took me to the creek she wanted to show me, where there was a male god lounging by a tree, and a female going about her own business. Down in the creek, where the spring water poured from a small tunnel, there was a very young-looking goddess who--I suppose--dwelt in one of the trees growing above the pool or in the water itself. As per usual, nowadays, I was hardly able to understand anything she said, but I could vaguely see her, just as I had vaguely saw the others. This was only because most of them were much brighter than usual--because of the time? Who knows.

I feel like after so many years, waiting around on these feelings, it's time to actively pursue them. I'm going to relate to these gods in a spiritual way, with the Dharma. For the benefit of myself and others. I'm posting this to ask about experience, and to ask about samatha meditation in regards to seeing and hearing godly beings.


In any case, thank you.

[Yudron]

In the practice tradition I come from, we have daily practices directed towards sentient beings—such as gods – that are invisible to most of us in order to benefit them and prevent obstacles to our own practice. However, if our own sense of having a solid and real identity (“I”) and there being a separate other who is also self-existent is reinforced by our practice, that is the opposite of enlightenment. I have rarely had any perception of invisible beings in my life, and my experience of sensitive people who can is that it generally takes their practice in a negative direction. It’s hard not to become overly fascinated with them—and fascination with sentient beings or having supernatural experiences is not the Buddha’s way. It is also easy to believe that one is a special person because one can see these things, which can lead to ego inflation.

Shamatha meditation will give a lot of people transient meditation experiences and a peaceful pleasurable experience. This, unto itself, is not a path to enlightenment in any Buddhist tradition, unless accompanied by Vipassyna – insight into the lack of real identity of sentient beings and the environment.

So, I don’t know what you mean that you want to relate to gods as a spiritual practice, on the face of it it sounds like some other religion. Every religion has some practice to cultivate Shamata.

On the other hand, the Tibetan practice of Chö works with the perception of gods and demons as a path to one’s own enlightenment – but this one does under the guidance of a qualified trusted teacher to prevent deviations from the path.

[Son]

In the practice tradition I come from, we have daily practices directed towards sentient beings—such as gods – that are invisible to most of us in order to benefit them and prevent obstacles to our own practice. However, if our own sense of having a solid and real identity (“I”) and there being a separate other who is also self-existent is reinforced by our practice, that is the opposite of enlightenment. I have rarely had any perception of invisible beings in my life, and my experience of sensitive people who can is that it generally takes their practice in a negative direction. It’s hard not to become overly fascinated with them—and fascination with sentient beings or having supernatural experiences is not the Buddha’s way. It is also easy to believe that one is a special person because one can see these things, which can lead to ego inflation.

But hasn't lead to ego inflation.

Shamatha meditation will give a lot of people transient meditation experiences and a peaceful pleasurable experience. This, unto itself, is not a path to enlightenment in any Buddhist tradition, unless accompanied by Vipassyna – insight into the lack of real identity of sentient beings and the environment.

So, I don’t know what you mean that you want to relate to gods as a spiritual practice, on the face of it it sounds like some other religion. Every religion has some practice to cultivate Shamata.

I think you might have misunderstood me into thinking I meant some sort of god worship, or using gods to represent things in practice or follow the Dharma through devas. I guess that's what you're think? This isn't a theory I'm proposing as a way to practice Dharma, or trying to develop a way of thinking. If someone has experience or if they have learned from teachers who have experience with gods, who live all over the place and in worlds above ours, then they could be of a lot of help to me when dealing with them--from a Buddhist perspective. This is no different than talking about dealing with people, or animals from a Buddhist perspective. It is simply, actively being involved with devas from a Buddhist perspective.

On the other hand, the Tibetan practice of Chö works with the perception of gods and demons as a path to one’s own enlightenment – but this one does under the guidance of a qualified trusted teacher to prevent deviations from the path.

This is interesting. Could you elaborate? I'm somewhat familiar with Tibetan shamanism.

[Kunga Lhadzom]

Son,
Just curious, is the use of entheogens attributed to this ability to see gods ?
If not, you have a gift.

[Lhug-Pa]

The following book on Shamatha, from the Dzogchen perspective, is highly recommended:

http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Stilling_th ... /17173.htm

In his commentary on Shamatha Teachings From Dudjom Lingpa's Vajra Essence, B. Alan Wallace explains how experiences can either be (even vivid) projections of our own substrate consciousness (Alayavijnana), or they can also be more genuine experiences (actual awareness of beings (Dakinis, Buddhas, Devas, Asuras, Pretas, etc.) of other dimensions) that are beyond the mere projections of our own Alayavijnana). Or Bindus/Thigles, clairvoyant perception of atoms, subatomic particles, etc.

[Yudron]

Buddhist chö (you will see this also spelled chod) is a practice that involves shifting one’s self-perceived identity to a inconceivable wisdom deity made of light – a female manifestation. To annihilate the four main “Mara’s” or negative forces that prevent one from realizing one’s enlightenment, chief among them ego clinging itself, one then can envision offering one’s corporeal body to the gods/demons of existence. Our experience of gods is said to represent our hopes, and demons our fears.

There are three streams of this practice, coming from the female teacher Machig Labdron, from the male teacher Padampa Sangye, or in visionary revelation from Guru Rinpoche or the mahasiddha Saraha.

[Son]

The following book on Shamatha, from the Dzogchen perspective, is highly recommended:

http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Stilling_th ... /17173.htm

In his commentary on Shamatha Teachings From Dudjom Lingpa's Vajra Essence, B. Alan Wallace explains how experiences can either be (even vivid) projections of our own substrate consciousness (Alayavijnana), or they can also be more genuine experiences (actual awareness of beings (Dakinis, Buddhas, Devas, Asuras, Pretas, etc.) of other dimensions) that are beyond the mere projections of our own Alayavijnana). Or Bindus/Thigles, clairvoyant perception of atoms, subatomic particles, etc.

Yes, the distinction between the two has been made clear to me in my practice. Specifically because of the traditions that I've been familiar with, and my study in Buddhism. What can you tell me about perception of atoms and subatomic particles? I began to see that a few years ago and tried to re-explain particle physics as a result. The scientific community, at large, didn't find it appealing particularly. But some who I discussed it with personally were... there were positive outcomes.

[Lhug-Pa]

Hi Son

I can't say much regarding my own direct experience; however I was referring to something that B. Alan Wallace wrote, regarding atoms, quarks, neutrinos, etc., in his commentary on the said Shamatha text by Dudjom Lingpa.

[Son]

While visiting the area of the devas nearby our neighborhood last night, we had a startling encounter. It was 2 AM and I hadn't seen hardly any devas at all. The deva who greeted us on an earlier night was missing. In fact the only devas I saw were the ones living in the air above one section of the path, and even they didn't seem to be "awake." However, once we reached our destination at the creek and sat down, apparently an unseen deva spoke into my friend's ear (she of course couldn't hear it), but the message came out of her mouth repeatedly regardless. She sad, "they're coming." I agreed with her, and so we left. On the way back, as the lightning strikes had become silent, I saw an asura cloaked in shadow standing on the path before us. It bothered me as usual, but my friend stopped dead in her tracks and stared at it. I asked her if she could see it, and she said, "what is that shadow standing there? There's someone right there." She was terrified, and when it moved, she recoiled. I was surprised that she could see it, having no meditative experience whatsoever, but realized that she had been cultivating openness of mind for a long time, and the asura was obviously wanting her to see him. As it is known, devas and asuras can reveal themselves to people if they wish to. Provided they're not completely blind.

Afterward, she began seeing devas that I saw too, and the experience was very illuminating for her. However, she was terrified the entire time.

[Kunga Lhadzom]

I find this extremely interesting. I have felt the presence of (Buddhas ?)( don't know what), especially during the practice of the 35 Buddhas. I rarely do sitting meditation these days...but now I am inspired by this. I never knew one could experience these things through meditation. Thus my ignorant comment regarding using entheogens. (Sorry Son) It might be too scarey for me though, as I have had strange experiences with dreams where I was in the presence of aliens

Also, I have been craving for mind blowing experiences(the past few years) as I've been bored, and have been seriously pondering using entheogens to satisfy my cravings for some incredible mind-blowing spiritual experiences....(just being honest here about my hidden true feelings)

I would love to have a conversation with a God, Dakini or deva or Mahasiddha. . Also I have total faith in all Mahayana, Vajrayana, and Sutrayana scriptures/texts. Faith is about all I have.

[anjali]

I'm not sure where to put this general petition for insight and sharing experience.

I feel like after so many years, waiting around on these feelings, it's time to actively pursue them. I'm going to relate to these gods in a spiritual way, with the Dharma. For the benefit of myself and others. I'm posting this to ask about experience, and to ask about samatha meditation in regards to seeing and hearing godly beings.

In any case, thank you.

Hello Son,

In the Theravada tradition there is a famous Thai monk named Ajahn Mun, who saw and gave dharma discourses to devas. He was a very interesting person. You can read a pdf of his biography written by an equally famous disciple of his here: http://abhayagiri.ehclients.com/pdf/books/BioMunAll.pdf. One of the nice features of this pdf file is that you can do word search. Do a search to find instances of the word "devas". You may find some interesting reading. Some typical passages:

"Several days prior to his departure from Sarika Cave, a group of terrestrial devas, led by the mysterious being he first encountered there, came to hear a discourse on Dhamma. After finishing his discourse, Ãcariya Mun informed them of his decision, saying he would soon take leave of them. Unwilling to see him depart, the large company of devas who were gathered there beseeched him to stay on for the sake of their long-term happiness and prosperity. Ãcariya Mun explained that, just as he had come to that cave for a reason, so too he had a reason for moving on – he didn’t come and go slavishly, following his desires. Asking for their understanding, he cautioned them against feeling disappointed. He promised that, if the opportunity presented itself in the future, he would return. The devas expressed their sincere regrets, showing the genuine affection and respect for him they’d always felt." pp 30-31

IN SOME OF THE NORTHEAST PROVINCES, Ãcariya Mun would give Dhamma instructions to the monks late at night on special occasions. Visible to Ãcariya Mun, terrestrial devas gathered at a respectful distance and listened to his talks. Once he became aware of them he called off the meeting and quickly entered samãdhi, where he talked privately to the devas. Their reticence on those occasions was due to the profound respect they had for monks. Ãcariya Mun explained that devas of all levels were careful to avoid passing by the monks’ dwellings on the way to see him late at night. Upon arriving they circled around Ãcariya Mun three times before sitting down in an orderly fashion. Then the leader – devas of every plane have a leader whom they obey with great deference – would announce the realm from which they came and the aspect of Dhamma to which they wished to listen. Ãcariya Mun would return their greetings and then focus his citta on that aspect of Dhamma requested by the devas. As this Dhamma arose within, he began the talk. When they had comprehended the Dhamma that he delivered, they all said “sãdhu” three times, a sound that echoed throughout the spiritual universe.22 This exclamation was heard by everyone with celestial hearing, but not by those whose ears were like the ‘handles on a pot of soup’.

When his discourse on Dhamma ended, the devas again circumambulated him three times, keeping him on their right, and then returned to their realms in an elegant fashion – very different from we humans. Not even Ãcariya Mun and his monks could emulate their graceful movements. For there’s a great difference between the grossness of our bodies and the subtle refinement of theirs. As soon as the deva guests retreated to the edge of the monks’ area, they floated up into the air like pieces of fluff blown by the wind. On each visit they descended in the same manner, arriving outside the monks’ living area and then walking the remainder of the way. Always very graceful in their movements, they never spoke making a lot of noise the way humans do when going to see an ãcariya they revere. This is probably due to the refined nature of their celestial bodies, which restrict them from behaving in such a gross manner. Here is an area in which human beings can be considered superior to devas – talking loudly. Devas are always very composed when listening to a Dhamma, never fidgeting restlessly or showing any conceit that could disturb the speaking monk. p 87-88

Specifically related to your interest in Samatha, here is an extended quote from regarding calm abiding and seeing devas:

"Listening to dhutanga monks as they relate their meditation results to Ãcariya Mun, and hearing him give advice on ways to deal with their experiences was so moving and inspirational that everyone present became thoroughly absorbed in it. In explaining the proper method for dealing with visions, Ãcariya Mun categorized different types of nimittas and explained in great detail how each type should be handled. The monks who listened were delighted by the Dhamma he presented, and so gained confidence, resolving to develop themselves even further. Even those who did not experience external visions were encouraged by what they heard. Sometimes the monks told Ãcariya Mun how they had achieved a state of serene happiness when their hearts ‘converged’ into a state of calm, explaining the methods they had used. Even those who were as yet unable to attain such levels became motivated to try – or to even surpass them. Hearing these discussions was a joyous experience, both for those who were already well developed and those who were still struggling in their practice.

When the citta ‘converged’ into calm, some monks traveled psychically to the heavenly realms, touring celestial mansions until dawn; and only then did the citta return to the physical body and regain normal consciousness. Others traveled to the realms of hell and were dismayed by the pitiful condition of the beings they saw, enduring the results of their kamma. Some visited both the heavenly abodes and the hells to observe the great differences between them: one realm was blessed with joy and bliss while the other was in the depths of despair, the beings there tormented by a punishment that seemed to have no end. Some monks received visits from ethereal beings from various planes of existence – the heavens, for instance, or the terrestrial devas. Others simply experienced the varying degrees of calm and happiness coming from the attainment of samãdhi. Some investigated, using wisdom to divide the body into different sections, dissecting each section to bits, piece by piece, then reducing the whole lot to its original elemental state. There were those who were just beginning their training, struggling as a child does when it first learns to walk. Some could not make the citta attain the concentrated state of calm they desired and wept at their own incompetence; and some wept from deep joy and wonder upon hearing Ãcariya Mun discuss states of Dhamma they themselves had experienced." pp. 84-85

[Kunga Lhadzom]

Thank you

[Son]

I find this extremely interesting. I have felt the presence of (Buddhas ?)( don't know what), especially during the practice of the 35 Buddhas. I rarely do sitting meditation these days...but now I am inspired by this. I never knew one could experience these things through meditation. Thus my ignorant comment regarding using entheogens. (Sorry Son) It might be too scarey for me though, as I have had strange experiences with dreams where I was in the presence of aliens

Also, I have been craving for mind blowing experiences(the past few years) as I've been bored, and have been seriously pondering using entheogens to satisfy my cravings for some incredible mind-blowing spiritual experiences....(just being honest here about my hidden true feelings)

I would love to have a conversation with a God, Dakini or deva or Mahasiddha. . Also I have total faith in all Mahayana, Vajrayana, and Sutrayana scriptures/texts. Faith is about all I have.

Sorry about the entheogens. I will say that devas might very well seem like aliens to people who don't know who they are. And they are aliens in the sense that they dwell in other realms and sometimes fly around in strange vehicles. But make no mistake, real experiences with them are not "satisfying mind-blowing experiences" in the way most people think. They certainly aren't akin to intoxicated hallucinations, of which I have firsthand experience and distinction. What's more, having conversations with devas is not always rewarding or even pleasant--it depends on their inclinations and will. However it is always an effort and there is no effortless communication with a deva, unless it is 100% them doing the communicating, which is... very unusual. Also, it usually takes a lot of sitting meditation and deep concentration to achieve any use of this divine eye. However, it is not beyond most people. Myself, I have so much inclination toward devas that with just a year of meditation I began to regain my childhood citta of them.

[Son]

I'm not sure where to put this general petition for insight and sharing experience.

I feel like after so many years, waiting around on these feelings, it's time to actively pursue them. I'm going to relate to these gods in a spiritual way, with the Dharma. For the benefit of myself and others. I'm posting this to ask about experience, and to ask about samatha meditation in regards to seeing and hearing godly beings.

In any case, thank you.

Hello Son,

In the Theravada tradition there is a famous Thai monk named Ajahn Mun, who saw and gave dharma discourses to devas. He was a very interesting person. You can read a pdf of his biography written by an equally famous disciple of his here: http://abhayagiri.ehclients.com/pdf/books/BioMunAll.pdf. One of the nice features of this pdf file is that you can do word search. Do a search to find instances of the word "devas". You may find some interesting reading. Some typical passages:

"Several days prior to his departure from Sarika Cave, a group of terrestrial devas, led by the mysterious being he first encountered there, came to hear a discourse on Dhamma. After finishing his discourse, Ãcariya Mun informed them of his decision, saying he would soon take leave of them. Unwilling to see him depart, the large company of devas who were gathered there beseeched him to stay on for the sake of their long-term happiness and prosperity. Ãcariya Mun explained that, just as he had come to that cave for a reason, so too he had a reason for moving on – he didn’t come and go slavishly, following his desires. Asking for their understanding, he cautioned them against feeling disappointed. He promised that, if the opportunity presented itself in the future, he would return. The devas expressed their sincere regrets, showing the genuine affection and respect for him they’d always felt." pp 30-31

IN SOME OF THE NORTHEAST PROVINCES, Ãcariya Mun would give Dhamma instructions to the monks late at night on special occasions. Visible to Ãcariya Mun, terrestrial devas gathered at a respectful distance and listened to his talks. Once he became aware of them he called off the meeting and quickly entered samãdhi, where he talked privately to the devas. Their reticence on those occasions was due to the profound respect they had for monks. Ãcariya Mun explained that devas of all levels were careful to avoid passing by the monks’ dwellings on the way to see him late at night. Upon arriving they circled around Ãcariya Mun three times before sitting down in an orderly fashion. Then the leader – devas of every plane have a leader whom they obey with great deference – would announce the realm from which they came and the aspect of Dhamma to which they wished to listen. Ãcariya Mun would return their greetings and then focus his citta on that aspect of Dhamma requested by the devas. As this Dhamma arose within, he began the talk. When they had comprehended the Dhamma that he delivered, they all said “sãdhu” three times, a sound that echoed throughout the spiritual universe.22 This exclamation was heard by everyone with celestial hearing, but not by those whose ears were like the ‘handles on a pot of soup’.

When his discourse on Dhamma ended, the devas again circumambulated him three times, keeping him on their right, and then returned to their realms in an elegant fashion – very different from we humans. Not even Ãcariya Mun and his monks could emulate their graceful movements. For there’s a great difference between the grossness of our bodies and the subtle refinement of theirs. As soon as the deva guests retreated to the edge of the monks’ area, they floated up into the air like pieces of fluff blown by the wind. On each visit they descended in the same manner, arriving outside the monks’ living area and then walking the remainder of the way. Always very graceful in their movements, they never spoke making a lot of noise the way humans do when going to see an ãcariya they revere. This is probably due to the refined nature of their celestial bodies, which restrict them from behaving in such a gross manner. Here is an area in which human beings can be considered superior to devas – talking loudly. Devas are always very composed when listening to a Dhamma, never fidgeting restlessly or showing any conceit that could disturb the speaking monk. p 87-88

Specifically related to your interest in Samatha, here is an extended quote from regarding calm abiding and seeing devas:

"Listening to dhutanga monks as they relate their meditation results to Ãcariya Mun, and hearing him give advice on ways to deal with their experiences was so moving and inspirational that everyone present became thoroughly absorbed in it. In explaining the proper method for dealing with visions, Ãcariya Mun categorized different types of nimittas and explained in great detail how each type should be handled. The monks who listened were delighted by the Dhamma he presented, and so gained confidence, resolving to develop themselves even further. Even those who did not experience external visions were encouraged by what they heard. Sometimes the monks told Ãcariya Mun how they had achieved a state of serene happiness when their hearts ‘converged’ into a state of calm, explaining the methods they had used. Even those who were as yet unable to attain such levels became motivated to try – or to even surpass them. Hearing these discussions was a joyous experience, both for those who were already well developed and those who were still struggling in their practice.

When the citta ‘converged’ into calm, some monks traveled psychically to the heavenly realms, touring celestial mansions until dawn; and only then did the citta return to the physical body and regain normal consciousness. Others traveled to the realms of hell and were dismayed by the pitiful condition of the beings they saw, enduring the results of their kamma. Some visited both the heavenly abodes and the hells to observe the great differences between them: one realm was blessed with joy and bliss while the other was in the depths of despair, the beings there tormented by a punishment that seemed to have no end. Some monks received visits from ethereal beings from various planes of existence – the heavens, for instance, or the terrestrial devas. Others simply experienced the varying degrees of calm and happiness coming from the attainment of samãdhi. Some investigated, using wisdom to divide the body into different sections, dissecting each section to bits, piece by piece, then reducing the whole lot to its original elemental state. There were those who were just beginning their training, struggling as a child does when it first learns to walk. Some could not make the citta attain the concentrated state of calm they desired and wept at their own incompetence; and some wept from deep joy and wonder upon hearing Ãcariya Mun discuss states of Dhamma they themselves had experienced." pp. 84-85

Thank you endlessly.

This was very encouraging and uplifting. I very much appreciate it. But I feel like I could only benefit by practicing with him or someone like him. In America, it's so difficult to achieve these sorts of level of divine eye and seeing distances.

Now... how to remove an asura...

[y1010]

In the Bhagavad Gita (Hindoe) is a text to communicate with the gods.
I did it and the god Brahma appeared.
You can find the method in the text.

[Son]

In the Bhagavad Gita (Hindoe) is a text to communicate with the gods.
I did it and the god Brahma appeared.
You can find the method in the text.

Do please indicate where in the Bhagavad Gita this is described.
Thanks.

[y1010]

A simple technique of meditation is described here: (1) Wash your face, eyes, hands, and feet and sit in a clean, quiet, dark place, using any comfortable posture, with head, neck, and spine straight and vertical. No music or incense during meditation is recommended. The time and place of meditation should be fixed. Follow the good principles of living by thoughts, words, and deeds. Some yogic exercises are necessary. Midnight, morning, and evening are the best times to meditate for 15 to 25 minutes every day, (2) Remember any name or form of the personal god you believe in and ask His or Her blessings, (3) Close your eyes, tilt head slightly upward, and take 5 to 10 very slow and deep breaths, (4) Fix your gaze, mind, and feelings inside the chest center, the seat of the causal heart, and breathe slowly. Mentally chant "So" as you breathe in and "Hum" as you breathe out. Think as if breath itself is making these sounds “So” and “Hum” (I am That Spirit). Mentally visualize and follow the route of breath going in through the nostrils, up towards the mid-brows, and down to the chest center, or lungs. Be alert, and feel the sensation created by the breath in the body as you follow the breath. Do not try to control or lead your breathing; just follow the natural breathing, (5) Direct the will towards the thought of merging yourself into the infinite space of the air you are breathing. If your mind wanders away from following the breaths, start from step (4). Be regular, and persist without procrastination.
http://www.gita-society.com/section2/2_bhagavadgita.htm

[Son]

A simple technique of meditation is described here: (1) Wash your face, eyes, hands, and feet and sit in a clean, quiet, dark place, using any comfortable posture, with head, neck, and spine straight and vertical. No music or incense during meditation is recommended. The time and place of meditation should be fixed. Follow the good principles of living by thoughts, words, and deeds. Some yogic exercises are necessary. Midnight, morning, and evening are the best times to meditate for 15 to 25 minutes every day, (2) Remember any name or form of the personal god you believe in and ask His or Her blessings, (3) Close your eyes, tilt head slightly upward, and take 5 to 10 very slow and deep breaths, (4) Fix your gaze, mind, and feelings inside the chest center, the seat of the causal heart, and breathe slowly. Mentally chant "So" as you breathe in and "Hum" as you breathe out. Think as if breath itself is making these sounds “So” and “Hum” (I am That Spirit). Mentally visualize and follow the route of breath going in through the nostrils, up towards the mid-brows, and down to the chest center, or lungs. Be alert, and feel the sensation created by the breath in the body as you follow the breath. Do not try to control or lead your breathing; just follow the natural breathing, (5) Direct the will towards the thought of merging yourself into the infinite space of the air you are breathing. If your mind wanders away from following the breaths, start from step (4). Be regular, and persist without procrastination.
http://www.gita-society.com/section2/2_bhagavadgita.htm

So, is this not the pursing of jhana? Which indeed brings the presence of brahma to you, if you wish.

[y1010]

Your answer should be: thank you.

[Andrew108]

Son asks questions but doesn't really want answers. If I'm being honest I think he has some difficulty in accepting a world view that is somewhat more mundane than his current creation. The point is that he enjoys seeing what he sees and feels a little bit special. So why not indulge him? It's better to make him feel ok then to offer him genuine advise.