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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:16 am 
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In Taiwan there are some people quite opposed to Tibetan Buddhism. On one of the main train lines they have these announcements plastered on the side of a building (I took these today):

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I suspect this stems from their concerns about consort practices. I was once at the National Palace Museum and some individuals were handing out bilingual booklets with graphic images of tantric deities coupling, condemning it as wrong.

They really went all out with these signs on the side of a building though. You can easily see it from the train and on the platform.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:26 am 
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I wonder who is paying for the campaign.

The money trail would maybe lead back to rival sects.

Someone should add to the poster listing all the other religious groups where sexual predation takes place - you'd need a VERY long banner. ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:33 am 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
I wonder who is paying for the campaign.

The money trail would maybe lead back to rival sects.

Someone should add to the poster listing all the other religious groups where sexual predation takes place - you'd need a VERY long banner. ;)


A lot of Chinese monks don't understand tantra, especially the consort practices, so they're lead to think it is a corrupted form of Buddhism. They also might feel threatened by it with various lamas moving into their territory and offering exotic pujas and practices (especially the pujas, which might appeal to many on the merit market). Tibetan Buddhism has some degree of popularity in Taiwan. I don't think it'll ever overtake Chinese traditions, but it is an alternative path to take if you feel disinterested with Chinese traditions. Theravada is also in the mix somewhat.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:55 am 
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It might have to do with the fact that many "Rinpoches" come to Taiwan and then sleep with the girls and take away a lot of money. :smile:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:33 am 
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Clarence wrote:
It might have to do with the fact that many "Rinpoches" come to Taiwan and then sleep with the girls and take away a lot of money. :smile:


What is "a lot"?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:59 am 
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Huseng wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
I wonder who is paying for the campaign.

The money trail would maybe lead back to rival sects.

Someone should add to the poster listing all the other religious groups where sexual predation takes place - you'd need a VERY long banner. ;)


A lot of Chinese monks don't understand tantra, especially the consort practices, so they're lead to think it is a corrupted form of Buddhism. They also might feel threatened by it with various lamas moving into their territory and offering exotic pujas and practices (especially the pujas, which might appeal to many on the merit market). Tibetan Buddhism has some degree of popularity in Taiwan. I don't think it'll ever overtake Chinese traditions, but it is an alternative path to take if you feel disinterested with Chinese traditions. Theravada is also in the mix somewhat.


Yes, there is always the aspect of novelty to consider as well as merit. I understand that almost all groups are represented there, including a controversial organisation which has Tibetan rituals, tantric trappings - and a history of sexual activity by ordained senior teachers.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:43 pm 
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I just wonder who is the organization that can have the money and put the advertisement like that? :broke:

There is a point why tantra should be hidden.

When it comes too quick without any good ground, this is what will come.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:55 pm 
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DarwidHalim wrote:
I just wonder who is the organization that can have the money and put the advertisement like that?


I suspect it is these guys: http://foundation.enlighten.org.tw/trueheart_en/14

Don't know if they are local Taiwanese crazies or PRC front group. But yes they don't like the idea of Tibetan's coming over and having their women - or so their argument seems to run.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Thanks Veneer,

From the website, it seems that there are already some wrong consort practices have occurred in Taiwan.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Knotty Veneer wrote:
DarwidHalim wrote:
I just wonder who is the organization that can have the money and put the advertisement like that?/quote]

I suspect it is these guys: http://foundation.enlighten.org.tw/trueheart_en/14

Don't know if they are local Taiwanese crazies or PRC front group. But yes they don't like the idea of Tibetan's coming over and having their women - or so their argument seems to run.


They have been very careful to avoid direct defamation by naming names ,except the Dalai Lama.

Definitely looks like their work, though.

It may rebound completely if it results in people being drawn to TB for the very sex being adversely criticised.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Knotty Veneer wrote:
DarwidHalim wrote:
I just wonder who is the organization that can have the money and put the advertisement like that?/quote]

I suspect it is these guys: http://foundation.enlighten.org.tw/trueheart_en/14

Don't know if they are local Taiwanese crazies or PRC front group. But yes they don't like the idea of Tibetan's coming over and having their women - or so their argument seems to run.


Probably both. Common int practice is to look for crazies and then fund them covertly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:40 pm 
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If not anything else, the way they end their article is enough to show their true colors. Let's take a look:

Quote:
As such, the Foundation can only strive for Taiwan first, and then gradually expand the influence to China, Hong Kong, Europe, and America in the future.

Proselytism and delusions of grandeur.

Quote:
The Foundation wishes to benefit all the countries and even the whole world, as well as to purify all human hearts.

One would think Dharma would be the way to tame our minds, not "The Foundation". The prudish take emphasizing purification isn't surprising. Prudish people tend to be self righteous.
Quote:
With this ideal, we hope that Taiwan is gradually becoming a world leading country in Buddhism and all the Taiwanese will take pride in it. (Reported by Guo Fengyan)

Well, one would think pride was something to be avoided, but apparently these guys cultivate it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:50 am 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
They have been very careful to avoid direct defamation by naming names ,except the Dalai Lama.

Definitely looks like their work, though.

It may rebound completely if it results in people being drawn to TB for the very sex being adversely criticised.


There are plenty of people interested in Tibetan Buddhism. Most Taiwanese Buddhists would part of a Chinese tradition, though a minority would take an interest in TB or Theravada, both of which are available.

Still, some people feel threatened by TB.

There has been opposition to the Dalai Lama coming to Taiwan. Ven. Xingyun the chief of Foguangshan went on national television and said he opposed the Dalai Lama visiting Taiwan. That's significant because he's the grand master of the largest Chinese Buddhist organization in the world.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:00 am 
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From a traditional Chinese Buddhist POV I can understand their concerns and have some sympathy for them. We all know there have been numerous sex scandals involving lamas and these aren't confined to the West so to some extent the criticisms are justified but it's a shame the profound methods of Highest Yoga Tantra have been so completely misunderstood and misrepresented. Degenerate age and all that....


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:29 am 
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Tilopa wrote:
From a traditional Chinese Buddhist POV I can understand their concerns and have some sympathy for them. We all know there have been numerous sex scandals involving lamas and these aren't confined to the West so to some extent the criticisms are justified but it's a shame the profound methods of Highest Yoga Tantra have been so completely misunderstood and misrepresented. Degenerate age and all that....


There's also the issue of some Rinpoches in Taiwan claiming to have the best pujas, which are superior in generating merit than anything a Chinese monk or nun could summon.

The merit market is a key concern here.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:29 am 
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Well, placing banners with defamatory sweeping comments like those probably isn't the best way to go about it, I'd say.
Moreover, after reading that article I wouldn't touch that Foundation with a ten foot pole.


Last edited by Dechen Norbu on Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:30 am 
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Huseng wrote:
Tilopa wrote:
From a traditional Chinese Buddhist POV I can understand their concerns and have some sympathy for them. We all know there have been numerous sex scandals involving lamas and these aren't confined to the West so to some extent the criticisms are justified but it's a shame the profound methods of Highest Yoga Tantra have been so completely misunderstood and misrepresented. Degenerate age and all that....


There's also the issue of some Rinpoches in Taiwan claiming to have the best pujas, which are superior in generating merit than anything a Chinese monk or nun could summon.

The merit market is a key concern here.

It's sad.
And completely pathetic.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:35 am 
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Huseng wrote:

There has been opposition to the Dalai Lama coming to Taiwan. Ven. Xingyun the chief of Foguangshan went on national television and said he opposed the Dalai Lama visiting Taiwan. That's significant because he's the grand master of the largest Chinese Buddhist organization in the world.

I find that rather worrying...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:25 pm 
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It reeks of politics.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:27 am 
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Tilopa wrote:
From a traditional Chinese Buddhist POV I can understand their concerns and have some sympathy for them. We all know there have been numerous sex scandals involving lamas and these aren't confined to the West so to some extent the criticisms are justified but it's a shame the profound methods of Highest Yoga Tantra have been so completely misunderstood and misrepresented. Degenerate age and all that....



There are numerous sex scandals in EVERY religion (major and minor) in the world. It's part of human ignorance whatever means available to promote an interest or agenda, including sexual agendas. I mean... give me one religion that has no sexual abuse perpetrated in it. It's not the religion, it's the people. I mean anything can become a vehicle of abuse where others require trust to follow. Anything. Even meeting someone and getting robbed.

We can't criticize a teaching when the people in them do heinous things that have nothing to do with the spirit of the teachings. We can criticize the people doing the heinous things and work to not let those things occur as easily. But it's nothing that will ever be completely solved so long as ignorance exists. You can't fight that thick ignorance completely. It will always take a new shape through its desire to be in each one of us... Unless you realize your own buddhahood... but even then, Buddha couldn't eradicate the problem in his world, he could just awaken and teach. And teach some more..

:namaste:

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