odysseus wrote:In this article (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html), there is the description of the "cessation of feeling and perception". I´m interested in this experience because I believe I have a perceptual problem due to former drug use (I´ve stopped now). I´ve tried many medications but nothing helps! Maybe this can heal me?
DarwidHalim wrote:THat is the cessation of feeling and perception.
DarwidHalim wrote:In that case, buddha is like the piece of dead wood.
Jnana wrote:Well, the cessation of perception and feeling isn't equivalent to bodhi.
Jnana wrote:DarwidHalim wrote:THat is the cessation of feeling and perception.
Generally, the attainment of cessation of perception and feeling (saṃjñāvedayitanirodha) is a specific meditative attainment of cessation (nirodhasamāpatti) which only occurs after the development of the fourth formless attainment (ārūpyasamāpatti), namely, the sphere of neither-perception-nor-nonperception (naivasaṃjñānāsaṃjñāyatana). The standard formula for this cessation attainment is given in the Pañcavimśatisāhasrika Prajñāpāramitā Sutra:
Entirely transcending the sphere of neither-perception-nor-nonperception, he enters and remains in the cessation of perception and feeling.
According to the Abhidharma systems the cessation of perception and feeling is a state wherein all functional consciousnesses and associated mental factors have been suspended and cease operating for the duration of that attainment.
undefineable wrote:I'm pretty unversed in interpretation of the the sutras, and had assumed that 'cessation' of perception occurred only after full enlightenment, i.e. one's last body
undefineable wrote:Are you saying that a Buddha is highly likely to bump into things all the time (I'm guessing not ), or that his/her unconscious brain now handles all perceptions fully in the manner of blind-sight (thus preventing 'lower-order' mentational details from clogging awareness), or what?
undefineable wrote:The association with the 'sphere of neither perception nor non-perception' suggests that it's all a bit beyond me.
Jnana wrote:undefineable wrote:I'm pretty unversed in interpretation of the the sutras, and had assumed that 'cessation' of perception occurred only after full enlightenment, i.e. one's last body
Non-returner śrāvakas and noble bodhisattvas on the path of meditation (bhāvanāmārga) can attain the meditative attainment of cessation of perception and feeling. Thus, it isn't directly related to the full enlightenment of a buddha.
Jnana wrote:undefineable wrote:Are you saying that a Buddha is highly likely to bump into things all the time (I'm guessing not ), or that his/her unconscious brain now handles all perceptions fully in the manner of blind-sight (thus preventing 'lower-order' mentational details from clogging awareness), or what?
No. The cessation of perception and feeling is a specific state of non-percipient meditation. It has a beginning and an end. It's not a state wherein one could walk around.
Jnana wrote:undefineable wrote:The association with the 'sphere of neither perception nor non-perception' suggests that it's all a bit beyond me.
Right. The formless attainments and the cessation of perception and feeling are refined meditative states which require extensive training.
undefineable wrote:I haven't studied therevada & the tripitaka for a long time, and never tied up loose ends or committed many specifics to memory, it seems - My first impressions (cold nihilism) put me off somewhat, and I found the mahayana teachings made more sense to me.
undefineable wrote:So in an eyes-closed meditation (which I'm guessing would be necessary) one would lose one's sense of touch and one's sense of body (proprioception)-?
undefineable wrote:I'd like to think so, but the cessation of perception sounds, not to put too fine a point on it (as we say) like the morning after the night before, and I can't see the point, still less why anyone would want to do it.
undefineable wrote:Isn't this a state that could take the exoteric (mundane) form you've described as well as the esoteric (detachment from perceptions as empty data?) form that DarwidHalim described.
Jnana wrote:The four dhyānas, four formless attainments, and the cessation attainment aren't unique to the Theravāda. A Mahāyāna bodhisattva develops and masters them all on the path, whereas a Theravāda arhat can be liberated without ever attaining or mastering any of the formless attainments or the cessation attainment.
Jnana wrote:There are both types of samādhis (i.e. cessative & non-dual) developed on both the exoteric and esoteric paths.
undefineable wrote:Could you explain what you mean by non-dual samadhis and exoteric v. esoteric paths?
odysseus wrote:Seems like there is disagreement of how many Jhanas there are, four or eigth or more?
odysseus wrote:Right Concentration should be attainable by anyone no?
odysseus wrote:I´m puzzled about "non-perception", it does not mean an unconscious state where your not aware of anything but I guess more like your perception is not needed at all and you have direct experience of "everything".
Jnana wrote:As per your initial query in this thread, in the context of the meditative attainment of the cessation of perception and feeling this is not what the absence of perception means.
odysseus wrote:That was my layman theory, but then what do you think non-perception is? If there is the possibility of cessation of perception (which I think I can understand), how is there a possibility of non-perception in the first place (which I can´t understand)?
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