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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:36 pm 
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If you want to make a good future for present mind then you have missed the point of Dzogchen.
It is that simple.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Sherlock wrote:
Someone posted about vajra sister who is a neuroscientist doing some scans of the brain while practising meditation in the Dzogchen way which showed a reduction in activity of the prefrontal cortex and also quoted some texts saying the feeling is like lifting a hat off your head. I often feel like this during practice and afterwards, is this what ChNN calls "presence"? Vidya/instant presence I think I feel only in some momentary flashes while doing guruyoga.


I'm sure there can be greater and lesser degrees of genuine insight, but one of the qualities of a true recognition experience is overwhelming certainty beyond the need for secondary confirmation or validation.


Sherlock wrote:
Has anyone had any experiences of really learning something in a dream of clarity? Rinpoche is Rinpoche but any of us unrealized practitioners received any teachings in dreams? Can you PM me about this if you don't feel like posting this in public?

Thanks


The more your mind is on the teachings the more you'll have dharma themed dreams. Dreams of clarity are an altogether different animal though, product of higher levels of realization and stability. I'm fairly certain you have to be at the point where you're remaining conscious in the dream state the majority of the time to experience dreams of clarity. I read somewhere that I took one teacher 7 years of abiding in the natural state to start remaining lucid in his sleep. All depends on the individual though.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
If you want to make a good future for present mind then you have missed the point of Dzogchen.
It is that simple.


Who said that Andrew108, the "making a good future for present mind" thing? I have a difficult time following your reasoning here.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
If you want to make a good future for present mind then you have missed the point of Dzogchen.
It is that simple.


....more gibberish.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:11 am 
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Stewart wrote:
Andrew108 wrote:
If you want to make a good future for present mind then you have missed the point of Dzogchen.
It is that simple.


....more gibberish.

Hi Stewart,
I apologize if what I said seems gibberish to you. I'll try to be more guarded in future. Apologies.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:29 am 
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I'm hoping others will post their questions here as well. Thanks for the replies so far.

Since this is from a non-restricted book, I hope someone can clarify some questions about dream practice here.

So basically, according to the Dream Yoga book by ChNN, after visualizing the white A in a thigle at your third eye position, you should be able to remember your dreams quite clearly, and after you have some disordered dreams you try to trace the karmic causes. After that, if you want to develop lucidity specifically, visualizing the red A at a throat will bring more violent/scary dreams which should trigger lucidity more easily and at the same time you remind yourself throughout the day that everything is unreal. There is some advice on how to transform your dreams etc but first you need to develop lucidity first. Is my understanding correct?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Also could someone share notes on the Atiyoga way of Dorje Drolod practice with me? I didn't take notes on that and the Freezecast site no longer has it.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
Stewart wrote:
Andrew108 wrote:
If you want to make a good future for present mind then you have missed the point of Dzogchen.
It is that simple.


....more gibberish.

Hi Stewart,
I apologize if what I said seems gibberish to you. I'll try to be more guarded in future. Apologies.


Andrew,

First off, it doesn't 'seem' like gibberish to me...it is gibberish. Magnus also queried it, you didn't respond.

The way I see it is you have read some of the Kunjed Gyalpo, which is great, so have I....and many others....and now you are coming across as someone who is capable of explaning Dzogchen teachings clearly to others. Please don't say 'your not a teacher' because the tone and content of your posts suggests otherwise. Example comment from another thread:

Quote:
It's really not like this. If you want I could explain more.


There are many other examples.

I'm not 100% sure what has happened, but I think you should examine how you are now presenting yourself on this forum. This all started with Malcolms personal posts about his own experiences, which are sincere, but I'm not so sure about the sincerity of the others who jumped on his wagon. I wonder who they are trying to convince.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Yes I accept your point. Thanks.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Sherlock wrote:
Also could someone share notes on the Atiyoga way of Dorje Drolod practice with me? I didn't take notes on that and the Freezecast site no longer has it.

Thanks


I heard that Dorje Drolod may be inserted in place of Guru Tragphur at the appropriate place in the Tuns - I think the Short Tun was the example given.

I'm not sure, however, if DD also replaces Simhamukha , or only GT in the waxing moon period.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:05 am 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
Sherlock wrote:
Also could someone share notes on the Atiyoga way of Dorje Drolod practice with me? I didn't take notes on that and the Freezecast site no longer has it.

Thanks


I heard that Dorje Drolod may be inserted in place of Guru Tragphur at the appropriate place in the Tuns - I think the Short Tun was the example given.

I'm not sure, however, if DD also replaces Simhamukha , or only GT in the waxing moon period.


That's still the Anuyoga way of practising.

I actually had a dream wiht Rinpoche telling me the importance of guruyoga and that secondary practices are very useful yesterday, although I'm quite sure it was a karmic dream. :tongue:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:03 pm 
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It was a good dream. And you know that Guruyoga is so important. Just be careful not to make the Guruyoga too devotional.

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The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Sherlock wrote:

That's still the Anuyoga way of practising.



Well, OK. So answer the question about Dorje Drolod the Atiyoga way then! LOL :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
Sherlock wrote:

That's still the Anuyoga way of practising.



Well, OK. So answer the question about Dorje Drolod the Atiyoga way then! LOL :)

If you remember the connection between Ati and Anu yoga it becomes clear how we can practice any of the secondary practices in the conjunction with Ati.

The Drolo practice has the Ati HUNG practice.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Josef wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
Sherlock wrote:

That's still the Anuyoga way of practising.



Well, OK. So answer the question about Dorje Drolod the Atiyoga way then! LOL :)

If you remember the connection between Ati and Anu yoga it becomes clear how we can practice any of the secondary practices in the conjunction with Ati.

The Drolo practice has the Ati HUNG practice.


That also applies to Guru Tragphur and all other secondary practices, so how does practising one instead of the other make it automatically Anuyoga? That's what I didn't understand. :namaste:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Blue Garuda wrote:
That also applies to Guru Tragphur and all other secondary practices, so how does practising one instead of the other make it automatically Anuyoga? That's what I didn't understand. :)


They are all anuyoga.
The only difference is the instructions that were included in Adzom Drukpa's Drollo terma that had another Ati guru yoga practice.

Drollo is generally said to be more closely associated with Ati and the removal of obstacles.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Josef wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
That also applies to Guru Tragphur and all other secondary practices, so how does practising one instead of the other make it automatically Anuyoga? That's what I didn't understand. :)


They are all anuyoga.
The only difference is the instructions that were included in Adzom Drukpa's Drollo terma that had another Ati guru yoga practice.

Drollo is generally said to be more closely associated with Ati and the removal of obstacles.


Ah. Thanks. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Blue Garuda wrote:

Ah. Thanks. :)


Drollo is a great secondary practice.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Josef wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:

Ah. Thanks. :)


Drollo is a great secondary practice.


Seems to be well worth pursuing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:58 am 
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I guess I'll offer something germane to the OP. I am sure most of us who practice with any dedication for a few years will have some dream experiences, and it can be very difficult to suss out what is wisdom and what is mind. I've had a number of dream experiences that - mind or not - have given me a very real and needed boost of devotion and faith, inspiraration. Here's one:

About eighteen years ago I was reading Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche's book on Paltrul's commentary on the Mani mantra. It was a warm CO afternoon, and I dropped the book for a lil' napperooski.[I should insert that even though I've been playing with dream yoga for many years I've never accomplished anything real. I have also never met Dilgo Khentse Rinpoche, though a number of my teachers have a strong connection with him.]
So, I'm dreaming that I'm in this long line of students with scarves, waiting for a moment with the guru, a very real sense of the time it takes to get through the line... arrive in front of DKR, and it's as though he's taking questions. I look at him, he looks at me, smiles, asks, "Yes?" I think about all of the detailed questions I want clarified, and they all are somehow answered in their own asking, rooted in the earth, and the "earth," ground, holds the pieces of the question/answer zygote. I'm flooded with a sense of wholeness and calm, fulfillment, wanting to share. Every question comes from its own answer somehow. I'm amazed at the fullness of some crazy cosmic wisdom, look back at him, still smiling, and then I become hyper-aware at all of the longing and anxious people behind me in line waiting for some "answer." Look back, he's still smiling, almost teary-eyed, and I feel this sense of being before a real bodhisattva tirelessly giving nothing to no one for no reason, and making a difference.
It shocks me awake, and I pick up the half-open book on my mattress, the back cover of which has DKR with that same wide-open, bottomless, cosmic smile. He's in the room, there is no "walls," looking at me. I try to hold onto the feeling... it slips into "mind," but it still made for a very refreshing afternoon.
I have been told by students of DKR that he often showed up in there dreams. I believe them.


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