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Extreme is the New Normal - Page 10 - Dhamma Wheel

Extreme is the New Normal

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:53 am

Dear Hanzee, Kim, All,

Some people criticize oil and gas industry, and yet they use the technological conveniences brought by those very same technologies.

I wonder how people would get to work riding in a bicycle in a -20 temperature. When you travel to distant places on other continents, most likely you are using a jet plane. When you go to the supermarket to buy your food, I bet that in most cases the food was brought there by a truck (burning diesel or gasoline). Most of us used a car or a bus to get to the supermarket to buy groceries. Another usage of this carbon based technology.

The plastic bags in which you carry your food, or plastic bottles for water, or even most of the stuff you wear, was made or delivered to you or shops in dependence on the technologies that some demonize.


I would like GW to be the case. It is cold in Canada. It is much harder to survive in a cold climate rather in than in warm climate. Try to be without power when it is freezing outside vs when it is hot outside. Former is dangerous, the latter is just inconvenient.


RE: Original post.

Today's changing weather is NOT extreme if we examine the history of the planet. There have been very hot and cold climates as now. The natural cataclysms existed long before Homo Sapients. Ice has been growing and melting long before us. To be strict, it seems that the planet spend more time in the hot phases and today we live in one of the coldest periods that the Earth has had in its 4.5 billion history. Greenland has an arctic climate now, it used to grow palm trees (it had hot climate) in fairly recent epoch. So warming up of the Earth would more likely be nature reverting to a normal, more warm climate. Nothing to raise fear about if the rise in temperature is the return to normal temperature that was for millions of years. I surely hope that this is the case that Earth is warming, and not a blip before us going into another ice age where there is 1 mile of ice over New York and many other cities in Northern Hemisphere. That, global cooling, would be much more worse than global warming.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Hanzze
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Hanzze » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:52 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:01 am


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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:15 pm

Hello Kim, all,

A picture is worth a thousand words. Please note that within only the past ~350,000 years (a tiny fraction of Earth's 4.5 billion history) there have been 3 major rises in temperature long before modern industralization. Today's rise is neither unique nor extreme when compared to rises in temperature ~150,000 or ~250,000 or ~350,000 years ago.

If those spikes in temperature 150K, 250K, and 350K have a natural explanation, then current rise in temperature can also have natural only explanation.

There is no need to add unneccesary and un-needed factors when natural causes can explain everything. See the chart.

co2Alex.JPG
co2Alex.JPG (59.49 KiB) Viewed 928 times
Attachments
co2AlexMillionsYears.JPG
co2AlexMillionsYears.JPG (62.02 KiB) Viewed 926 times
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:02 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:42 am

Kim,

I've posted reasonable questions, such as in
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6963&start=180#p113327


I understand that those graphs really complicate the issue by pulling a rug under their main arguments and scare tactics. If nature could do it before, and if explanation of rapid rise before could have purely natural explanation, then so is today. No need to add un-needed factors.

Today's changing weather is NOT extreme if we examine the history of the planet, even as short as 350,000 of years. There have been very hot and cold climates as now. The natural cataclysms existed long before Homo Sapients. Ice has been growing and melting long before us. To be strict, it seems that the planet spend more time in the hot phases and today we live in one of the coldest periods that the Earth has had in its 4.5 billion history. Greenland has an arctic climate now, it used to grow palm trees (it had hot climate) in fairly recent epoch. So warming up of the Earth would more likely be nature reverting to a normal, more warm climate. Nothing to raise fear about if the rise in temperature is the return to normal temperature that was for millions of years. I surely hope that this is the case that Earth is warming, and not a blip before us going into another ice age where there is 1 mile of ice over New York and many other cities in Northern Hemisphere. That, global cooling, would be much more worse than global warming.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:55 am


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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:22 pm

Attachments
co2Alex.JPG
Please explain the cause of those 3 spikes before humans invented ways to burn carbon fuel, and I'll tell you the reason for the 4th spike. If Nature is sole and sufficient reason for fluctuating temperature, then so is it today.
co2Alex.JPG (59.49 KiB) Viewed 889 times
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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poto
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby poto » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:26 am


alan
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby alan » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:40 am


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poto
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby poto » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:47 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:57 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:11 am

Extreme is the new Normal: recent news headlines
La Nina the strongest in almost a century
US braces for new round of snow
Brisbane council faces $440m clean-up bill
Brazil, Sri Lanka also struggle with flooding
:namaste:
Kim

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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poto
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby poto » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:46 pm


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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:23 pm


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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:00 am



:namaste:
Kim

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:31 pm

Kim, so what? Climate was changing for 4.5 billion of years. The temperature has been going up and down without any influence of human technology. Today's temperatures are quite cold considering where it generally been for 100s of millions of years. We are closer to another ice age rather than warmth as usual.


If nature itself could produce those rapid spikes in temperature before, why can't it be responsible for it today? Today's spike is neither more rapid nor bigger. The burden of proof is on AGWist to provide proof for their unsubstantiated claims.

If nature itself could produce up to 7,000ppm of CO2 (not a pollutant, not a gas that warms the planet) then what is the scare about current 390ppm levels of CO2? Maybe the fact that, relatively speaking, we are CO2 impoverished?



co2Alex.JPG
co2Alex.JPG (59.49 KiB) Viewed 820 times



co2AlexMillionsYears.JPG
co2AlexMillionsYears.JPG (62.02 KiB) Viewed 820 times
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Kim OHara
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:11 pm





:namaste:
Kim

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:07 am

Kim,

The weather has been changing, sometimes drastically, for 4.5 billions of years. There have been MUCH warmer periods than today, and about 19 times as much CO2 than today.

We could say that climate today is more drastic, it is much colder than it used to be for millions of years when life flourished.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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