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"You cannot be moral without being religious" - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

"You cannot be moral without being religious"

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
rowyourboat
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:35 pm

Looking for the causes of morality:

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "Ignorance[1] precedes the arrival of unskillful qualities; lack of conscience & lack of concern[2] follow after. Clear knowing precedes the arrival of skillful qualities; conscience & concern follow after."

§ 40. {Iti 2.13; Iti 34}   

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tobes
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby tobes » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:47 am


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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:08 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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andre9999
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby andre9999 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:40 pm


fragrant herbs
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby fragrant herbs » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:47 pm


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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:00 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Guy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Guy » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:44 am

Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

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Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1885
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Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:16 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Northernbuck
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Location: Thompson, Manitoba, Canada

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Northernbuck » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:39 am

But if this neutral feeling that has arisen is conditioned by the body which is impermanent, compounded and dependently arisen, how could such a neutral feeling be permanent? - SN 36.7

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tobes
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby tobes » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:34 am


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Kim OHara
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Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:16 am


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Ron-The-Elder
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:22 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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tobes
Posts: 65
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby tobes » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:56 am


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tobes
Posts: 65
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby tobes » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:29 am

Last edited by tobes on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

alan
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Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby alan » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:59 am

Thanks, Kim, nice answer.
I'd like to expand the discussion away from definitions of "morality". Most people assume that what they think is right must therefore be moral. And what they think is right is usually what they were taught.
So I'd reframe the OP. "Is it possible to act ethically without being religious?"

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Ron-The-Elder
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Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:33 am

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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tobes
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:34 am

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby tobes » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:38 am


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Ben
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Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:49 am

Listening to the radio last night, I caught an interesting interview with Dr Peter Singer on the nature of ethics and evolution. Hopefully some will find it useful...
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/ ... 133238.htm
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:32 pm


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Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1885
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: "You cannot be moral without being religious"

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:12 pm

Taking The Reductionist Approach regarding morality:

Given: "Imagine that society and all of its religions, all of its philosophers, all of its gurus, all of its wise men, all of its documents and documentaries, all of its orally transmitted data, all of its recorded, written, and memorized lessons were vaporized and could no longer be accessed by sentient beings."

Only one child survives this destruction. The child is just at the age whereby it has the ability to search, forage, discover, experience, and learn from its mistakes and successes. All of its feelings, emotions, exterior and interior sensibilities are healthy and functioning. It wants in no way for physical health at first, nor for shelter or sustenance, having been placed in a garden of plenty with limitless resources.

What set of morals would the child develop over its (short) life-time from that point forward?
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.


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