Where is Mount Meru?

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Where is Mount Meru?

Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:30 pm

In many Indo-European religions we find reference to a mountain being at the center of a culture's cosmological vision. For example, Olympus (Greek), Asgard (Norse), Harā Bərəzaitī (Persian) and Mount Meru (Indic).

Clearly the fact these diverse cultures share the same mythological element speaks of a common source.

So what are we to make of it? This is a controversial issue in modern times because it has been discovered that our planet is not made up of four continents with Meru at the center.

However, Mount Meru is said to be the abode of various deities up to a certain point, which would indicate it is not physical, but something beyond our ordinary physical realm.

The Vedic proponent Richard Thompson in his work Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy suggested that Mount Meru is part of a transcendental cosmological map. He demonstrated that the ancient Indians had scientific astronomical knowledge, but given the divine nature of the knowledge it extended beyond the physical realm, hence beyond what we can ordinarily perceive.

Or are we just talking about ancient cosmology that failed to pass the test of modern cosmology and hence can be set aside without further ado?
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby deepbluehum » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:43 pm

You should see "The Arctic Home in the Vedas by B.G. Tilak, edition 1925." There the author describes an interglacial ice-age where the various races congregated in a mild Arctic clime. He said the four continent, Mount Meru description might have been satisfied by the islands in the Arctic that we can no longer see since it became covered over with ice. Soon maybe we will see it.

Key to the early thinkers was the concept of self-similarity, as goes the macro, goes the micro.

There are some interesting pictures of the universe online which makes it look like a cone

Image

Image

Image

This could fit the notion of a giant mountain in the middle surround by four quadrants. Frankly, I am not some great meditator, but I have had visions of the universe which contained knowledge I could only have received by direct perception and not guessing because I got accurate knowledge as verified later by research. I have no doubt a great being like Buddha, Rishis etc could see everything. The mind is really miraculous and amazing. It's not so easy to dismiss these old myths. They speak to something very deep. Our modern attitude is more primitive.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby dharmagoat » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:06 pm

deepbluehum wrote:There are some interesting pictures of the universe online which makes it look like a cone.

Yes, but mountains point up, these point sideways.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby pemachophel » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:29 pm

In space there's no up or down.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby dharmagoat » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:53 pm

pemachophel wrote:In space there's no up or down.

So how can there be mountains?
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby seeker242 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:15 am

Perhaps this is the "real life" Mount Meru. :smile:

"Scientists Closing in on Black Hole at Center of Our Galaxy"
http://www.space.com/15166-milky-center ... astar.html
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:29 am

From our vantage it would be in and out or up and down.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:34 am

seeker242 wrote:Perhaps this is the "real life" Mount Meru. :smile:

"Scientists Closing in on Black Hole at Center of Our Galaxy"
http://www.space.com/15166-milky-center ... astar.html

Actually, the central hub of our own Milky Way galaxy is clearly visible in the night sky, and may have resembled a central mountain to an ancient observer.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:05 am

dharmagoat wrote:
seeker242 wrote:Perhaps this is the "real life" Mount Meru. :smile:

"Scientists Closing in on Black Hole at Center of Our Galaxy"
http://www.space.com/15166-milky-center ... astar.html

Actually, the central hub of our own Milky Way galaxy is clearly visible in the night sky, and may have resembled a central mountain to an ancient observer.


Yes that too, and this goes to the "as above so below" or "as the macro so the micro" attitude of self-similarity at various degrees of scale shared by the ancient myth creators. Listening to Hindu yogis one comes to an understanding that mythologizing wasn't a way to tell a human story to account for what they could not understand, rather mythologizing was a way to model complex systems and to encode and encrypt knowledge so that it could be transmitted easily through the ages. A sort of time capsule in story form.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:13 am

deepbluehum wrote:Listening to Hindu yogis one comes to an understanding that mythologizing wasn't a way to tell a human story to account for what they could not understand, rather mythologizing was a way to model complex systems and to encode and encrypt knowledge so that it could be transmitted easily through the ages. A sort of time capsule in story form.

I agree. Myth served a very important function in earlier times, and being essentially poetic in nature, was never intended to be taken entirely literally.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby Konchog1 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:08 am

Huseng wrote:In many Indo-European religions we find reference to a mountain being at the center of a culture's cosmological vision. For example, Olympus (Greek), Asgard (Norse), Harā Bərəzaitī (Persian) and Mount Meru (Indic).

Clearly the fact these diverse cultures share the same mythological element speaks of a common source.
Well, the simple answer is that the Indo-European myths are all based on the same set of myths held by the Proto-Indo-Europeans. Then the Proto-Indo-Europeans spread out in all directions and the myths began to change over time. But they still share similarities.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby underthetree » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:22 am

Historically, how long has Mount Kailash been regarded as Mount Meru, and in how many cultures?
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:01 am

dharmagoat wrote:Yes, but mountains point up, these point sideways.
Are you sure of that? Consider a mountain in Antarctica or on the equator. :thinking: What direction do they point in?
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:05 am

Konchog1 wrote:Clearly the fact these diverse cultures share the same mythological element speaks of a common source.
Well, the simple answer is that the Indo-European myths are all based on the same set of myths held by the Proto-Indo-Europeans. Then the Proto-Indo-Europeans spread out in all directions and the myths began to change over time. But they still share similarities.[/quote]Proto-Indo-Europeans? And here's me thinking that all humanity originated in Africa. Maybe it all started with Kilimanjaro?
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby DarwidHalim » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:59 am

I actually read somewhere (which I have forgotten) that Mount Meru is the concept of cosmology exist in India even before Buddhism starts.

The system is definitely quite simple as compare to the modern cosmology.

Although it is not right, it is simple and easier for visualization. For example, for the beginner, they can visualize the whole mandala as the mount meru + 4 continents.

If they have to imagine the modern cosmology, sun + earth + jupiter + pluto + unlimited galaxies, it is very complicated.

So, although the concept of Mount Meru is wrong, it is very useful for visualization.

Namkhai Norbu, he said this: In buddhism, there is nothing real, there is nothing permanent.

So, it is impossible that we can have 1 unique shape of universe. That single shape of universe cannot possible exist.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:03 pm

Huseng wrote:In many Indo-European religions we find reference to a mountain being at the center of a culture's cosmological vision. For example, Olympus (Greek), Asgard (Norse), Harā Bərəzaitī (Persian) and Mount Meru (Indic).

Clearly the fact these diverse cultures share the same mythological element speaks of a common source.

So what are we to make of it? This is a controversial issue in modern times because it has been discovered that our planet is not made up of four continents with Meru at the center.

However, Mount Meru is said to be the abode of various deities up to a certain point, which would indicate it is not physical, but something beyond our ordinary physical realm.

The Vedic proponent Richard Thompson in his work Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy suggested that Mount Meru is part of a transcendental cosmological map. He demonstrated that the ancient Indians had scientific astronomical knowledge, but given the divine nature of the knowledge it extended beyond the physical realm, hence beyond what we can ordinarily perceive.

Or are we just talking about ancient cosmology that failed to pass the test of modern cosmology and hence can be set aside without further ado?


According to the Surya Siddhanta, Meru is the north pole.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:05 pm

underthetree wrote:Historically, how long has Mount Kailash been regarded as Mount Meru, and in how many cultures?


Only by some Tibetans. Indians never thought Meru was Kailash.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:45 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:Yes, but mountains point up, these point sideways.
Are you sure of that? Consider a mountain in Antarctica or on the equator. :thinking: What direction do they point in?

They always point up. Go there and see.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby practitioner » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:22 pm

dharmagoat wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:Yes, but mountains point up, these point sideways.
Are you sure of that? Consider a mountain in Antarctica or on the equator. :thinking: What direction do they point in?

They always point up. Go there and see.


It all depends on where you view them from. There is no up or down.
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Re: Where is Mount Meru?

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:38 pm

practitioner wrote:It all depends on where you view them from.

Where do you view them from?
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