Yangzab and Chokling tersar

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Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby roman » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:55 am

I know their is alot of people here that can tell me more on both of these profound termas. Padmasambhava given to King Trisong Deutsen's son, Murub Tsepo.

Chokling Tersar was founded by Chokgyur Lingpa is the owner of seven transmissions and is regarded as the universal monarch of all tertöns. One of the reasons for this is that no other tertön has revealed a teaching that includes the Space Section (Longdey) of Dzogchen. There are several Mind Section (Semdey) revelations and all major tertöns have revealed the Instruction Section (Menngakdey), but only Chokgyur Lingpa transmitted the Space Section. This is why the Dzogchen Desum is considered the most extraordinary terma that he ever revealed.

The Yangzab was given to Murub Tsepo by Padmasambhava because, Murub Tsepo found that his fathers duties were were so numerous that he had little time to practice Dharma. Guru Rinpoche foresaw a time in the future when the teachings of dharma would degenerate due to the increasing power of ignorance and afflictive emotions in the minds of sentient beings. Guru Rinpoche gave the teachings of the "Very Profound " (Yang Zab) - practices that he received through Kuntungzangpo (dharmakaya), the 100 peaceful and wrathful deities and the 5 buddha families (sambhogakaya), and from Tulku Garab Dorje (nirmanakaya). Prophesizing that these teachings would be most effective in future times of spiritual darkness, he gave the teachings to Mandarava, who attained rainbow body, and to Yeshe Tsogyal. Guru Rinpoche instructed him to put the practice into text form and prepare six copies on durable sheets of gold, turquoise, copper and other materials. was wrapped in precious materials and hidden by Yeshe Tsogyal in Zhoto Terdrom on the limestone massif to the north in the Great Assembly Hall of the Sky Dancers cave (Yangzab).
Yangzab was found in the 1600's and Chokling was found in the 1800's.

So was Chokling tersar was realized by Murub Tsepo after practicing Yangzab that Padmasambha gave to him to practice? There seems to be a lot of differences between these two termas. As i know that other people are familiar with these two practices, could you explaining more of these two profound Terma.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:05 am

roman wrote: but only Chokgyur Lingpa transmitted the Space Section.


Until Chogyal Namkhai Norbu-- and his klong sde is much more detailed than the klong sde section in the sde gsum.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby heart » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:18 am

roman wrote:So was Chokling tersar was realized by Murub Tsepo after practicing Yangzab that Padmasambha gave to him to practice? There seems to be a lot of differences between these two termas. As i know that other people are familiar with these two practices, could you explaining more of these two profound Terma.


Chokling Tersar contain many volumes of teachings and practices I am pretty sure it is the same with Yangzab. So it is quite difficult to compare them. You can practice from both of them or just one of them and be fully satisfied. The Chokling Tersar contains numerous complete teachings, with complete I mean enough to attain enlightenment in one life.

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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby roman » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:35 pm

Until Chogyal Namkhai Norbu-- and his klong sde is much more detailed than the klong sde section in the sde gsum.


What about the klong sde section in the yangzab? Isn't being clear subjective, or is it that much clearer?

The Chokling Tersar contains numerous complete teachings, with complete I mean enough to attain enlightenment in one life.


The Chokling is much larger then the yangzab. I would think that it would be "more complete".

So the Chokling was the princes realization after practicing the Yangzab, you would say? I'm not sure it is matters, it is simply a question.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby heart » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:01 pm

roman wrote:
The Chokling Tersar contains numerous complete teachings, with complete I mean enough to attain enlightenment in one life.


The Chokling is much larger then the yangzab. I would think that it would be "more complete".

So the Chokling was the princes realization after practicing the Yangzab, you would say? I'm not sure it is matters, it is simply a question.


Not sure it works like that. Some Tertons see numerous Termas but don't take out anything. Sometimes certain auspicious coincidence are necessary for the Terma to be revealed, like a special consort or something like that. Some Termas can only be relived within a limited time frame and so on. Also one third of the Chokling Tersar belongs to one Terma, the Tukdrub Barche Kunsel (which is very big with a lot of auxiliary teachings and sadhanas). If you are interested you should read Tulku Thondrup book on Termas, it is great. Also "Life of Chokgyur Lingpa" http://www.rangjung.com/authors/Chokgyu ... a_Life.pdf and somewhere there is Namcho Mingyur Dorje also avaibale for download somewhere (can't find it right now) and probably some other Terton life story (Dujom Lingpas life story was just published).

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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:13 pm

roman wrote:
Until Chogyal Namkhai Norbu-- and his klong sde is much more detailed than the klong sde section in the sde gsum.


What about the klong sde section in the yangzab? Isn't being clear subjective, or is it that much clearer?



There is no sems sde or klong sde in the yang zab.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby roman » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:37 am

Malcolm-- would say them the Yang zab would not be complete? To me it sounds like no. Can you tell me more of the Yang zab....you have studied it under Lamkhyen Gyalpo Rinpoche, right?
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:04 am

roman wrote:Malcolm-- would say them the Yang zab would not be complete? To me it sounds like no. Can you tell me more of the Yang zab....you have studied it under Lamkhyen Gyalpo Rinpoche, right?



Yangzab is 98 percent sadhanas.

It really only has one or two actual Dzogchen texts. Yangzab is an appendix to Khandro Nyinthig and is meant to be practiced in conjunction with it.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby Drikung_Dzogchen » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:21 pm

The Yangzab Terma cycle is most definitively complete. Malcom is correct in that there are only a few Dzogchen texts in The actually Yangzab Terma Rinchen Phuntsog composed other Dzogchen commentaries, one in particular on the Khandro Nyingtig that even references the Yangzab. Maybe if is fair to say the Yangzab is an appendix to the Khandro Nyingtig but on the other hand it is complete in itself and a major Dzogchen Commentary on the root Dzogchen terma text was composed at a later date which goes into great detail about all the highest Dzogchen practices including accomplishing the Rainbow Body. I think that Rinchen Phuntsog also intended practitioners of the Yangzab to also draw upon the Dzogchen commentaries within the Khandro Nyingtig. But from the standpoint of the practitioner, even if you lived in Tibet, the Nyingtig Yabshi or any of it's four branches were unwieldy to practice. I think the Yangzab Terma as well as the Longchen Nyingtig were both cycles based on the Khandro Nyingtig that were much easier to practice. The Yangzab has been practiced from the time it was revealed to the present day and is not incomplete or broken. This could just be my karmic connection to the Yangzab cycle or bias but the Yangzab cycle seems very suited to these times if one feels they have a karmic connection with it they should have no doubts about being able to practice it through all the stages to fruition.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby Malcolm » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:26 pm

Drikung_Dzogchen wrote: Maybe if is fair to say the Yangzab is an appendix to the Khandro Nyingtig...


Rinchen Puntsog himself describes the Yangzab as an appendix to the Khadro Nyinthig. Hard to get more authoritative than that.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby Drikung_Dzogchen » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:39 pm

Where does he describe the Yangzab in those terms Malcom. I am not doubting you because I believe their was the intention on Rinchen Phuntsogs part to refer to the Dzogchen texts also in the Khandro Nyingtig. But I have never seen that exact reference. Which text in the cycle puts the Yangzab in that context. Some of this is just a question of language. To me the word "appendix" which is often defined as "A collection of supplementary material" does not truly represent the Yangzab, especially when taking into account the other Dzogchen commentaries written by Rinchen Phuntsog or the massive Dzogchen commentary written by Namkai Jigme. So please direct me me to the specific text as well as the Tibetan so I can get a clearer understanding of the meaning.
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Re: Yangzab and Chokling tersar

Postby Malcolm » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:00 pm

Drikung_Dzogchen wrote:Where does he describe the Yangzab in those terms Malcom.


I forget exactly where, but it is definitely in there. You can ask David Arndt also, since when I was working on these texts for him, we discussed it.

You have to understand that the outer three roots is basically just a elaborated version of the Hayagriva/Yogini sadhana in the KN.
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