What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

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What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Wesley1982 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:38 pm

What do most Buddhists say about Angels?...
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Will » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:14 pm

Another title of Gautama the Buddha is Teacher of Devas & Men. There are many sutras where Buddha did just that, teach angels/devas. 'Deva' is Sanskrit and means 'shining one'.

So I would hope most Buddhists would accept that angels or devas do exist.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:44 pm

They say lots about angels and definitely know how many dance on the head of a pin, though depending on the tradition/sect the number may vary! :tongue:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:06 am

(I think) in the Orthodox and Catholic Churches there is something called the Angelic Heirarchy -or- Heirarchy of Angels- who serve "God".
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby greentara » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:32 am

Alot of Buddhism is based on magical stories, the supernatural and myth, indeed they are lovely but it's best to concentrate on the core teaching as that's where the real power and beauty resides. "Mahavira’s life parallels rather startlingly with the Buddha’s. He was born of a ksatriyan chief named Siddhattha, married a woman named Yasoda, had one child, a daughter named Anoja, renounced the world at the age of 20 and became enlightened (kevala) at 28 while sitting at the foot of a sal tree. He passed away at the age of 72. Why these and other similarities? Here is one possible explanation. Almost none of the events in the classical biography of the Buddha – the events surrounding his birth, being the son of a king, marriage, being father to a son, his life in the palace, seeing of the four sights, etc; are not from the scriptures, i.e. they are later legends. The Tipitaka records virtually nothing about the Buddha’s life until his Great Renunciation. Few people know that nowhere in the Tipitaka does it even mention that the Buddha’s personal name was Siddhattha. Even the very late and very legendary Mahapadana Sutta (D.II,1) doesn’t mentions it. When in later centuries a full biography of the Buddha was needed, much of the details may have been ‘lifted’ from the biography of Mahavira"
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Nighthawk » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:29 am

Wesley1982 wrote:(I think) in the Orthodox and Catholic Churches there is something called the Angelic Heirarchy -or- Heirarchy of Angels- who serve "God".

Are you a Christian?
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:56 am

Nighthawk wrote:Are you a Christian?


Are you a Atheist?
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Bonsai Doug » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:46 am

gregkavarnos wrote:They say lots about angels and definitely know how many dance on the head of a pin, though depending on the tradition/sect the number may vary! :tongue:

OK... that's funny! :thumbsup:
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I do not have the luxury of remaining on a distracted path.

~ Tibetan Book of the Dead
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby KeithBC » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:45 am

Wesley1982 wrote:What do most Buddhists say about Angels?...

About the same as what they say about uinicorns.

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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:28 am

Can you trace the history of the unicorn's "existence" in mythology and folklore?..
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby underthetree » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:25 am

Wesley1982 wrote:What do most Buddhists say about Angels?...


What to angels have to say about the Four Noble Truths and the Four Seals of Dharma? If nothing, why search for them?
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Simon E. » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:42 am

greentara wrote:Alot of Buddhism is based on magical stories, the supernatural and myth, indeed they are lovely but it's best to concentrate on the core teaching as that's where the real power and beauty resides. "Mahavira’s life parallels rather startlingly with the Buddha’s. He was born of a ksatriyan chief named Siddhattha, married a woman named Yasoda, had one child, a daughter named Anoja, renounced the world at the age of 20 and became enlightened (kevala) at 28 while sitting at the foot of a sal tree. He passed away at the age of 72. Why these and other similarities? Here is one possible explanation. Almost none of the events in the classical biography of the Buddha – the events surrounding his birth, being the son of a king, marriage, being father to a son, his life in the palace, seeing of the four sights, etc; are not from the scriptures, i.e. they are later legends. The Tipitaka records virtually nothing about the Buddha’s life until his Great Renunciation. Few people know that nowhere in the Tipitaka does it even mention that the Buddha’s personal name was Siddhattha. Even the very late and very legendary Mahapadana Sutta (D.II,1) doesn’t mentions it. When in later centuries a full biography of the Buddha was needed, much of the details may have been ‘lifted’ from the biography of Mahavira"

An important series of points imo.
The " miraculous" and " supernatural " elements of the stories that surround the Buddhas life come from a stock of poetic imagery which is common to all religions that have emerged from the Indian Subcontinent..in addition to Mahavira and the Jain Tirthankas the same birth stories and stories of distinguishing marks and so on are found in the Vaisnav and Shaivite traditions too.
In some cases these stories predate Buddhism. And they run right through to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in the 14 th C.E.
They are beautiful and poetic. They are not history.
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Nighthawk » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:03 pm

Wesley1982 wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:Are you a Christian?


Are you a Atheist?

:rolleye:
and yes I am.
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:04 pm

underthetree wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:What do most Buddhists say about Angels?...


What to angels have to say about the Four Noble Truths and the Four Seals of Dharma? If nothing, why search for them?


I would generally see "Angels in Buddhist thought" as something natural and passive.
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:09 pm

Nighthawk wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:Are you a Christian?


Are you a Atheist?

:rolleye:
and yes I am.


I learned from a specific book that Buddhism is "beyond" or "irrelevant" to labels and stereotypes.
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby seeker242 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:22 pm

That angels are powerful non-human beings that are born in the "god realms" because of the good karma they have made. But there are differences between the christian idea of angels and the Buddhist idea of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_%28Buddhism%29
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Nighthawk » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:26 pm

Wesley1982 wrote:
I learned from a specific book that Buddhism is "beyond" or "irrelevant" to labels and stereotypes.

In a deeper sense yes. The less labels the better, but all paths do not lead to rome.
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Will » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:29 pm

underthetree wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:What do most Buddhists say about Angels?...


What to angels have to say about the Four Noble Truths and the Four Seals of Dharma? If nothing, why search for them?


The sixth of the ten recollections that Buddha taught as meditation subjects is one focused on Devas - from Anguttara Nikaya (Ones section):

§6. One thing — when developed & pursued — leads solely to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding. Which one thing? Recollection of the devas...


It was devas who encouraged Buddha to teach others, when he was reluctant to do so; it was devas who brought forth much of the Dharma we have today by asking questions of Buddha. Some devas also learned from Buddha and taught the Dharma.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Maybe one of the earliest Buddha was in hardship for several years and was always "pressing forward" as some form of asceticism.
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Re: What do most Buddhists say about Angels?

Postby AdmiralJim » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:25 pm

Do people really believe at the time the scriptures were written down that these Buddhists believed that the miraculous stories were poetic imagery? I don't think so..........
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