Who should attend DC webcast?

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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:30 pm

Thanks Dechen Norbu. Yeah I agree that anyone who is sincere should be able to achieve the main qualifications.

Jacob, well we should always practice Guru Yoga, even (especially) before a session of Rushen or Semdzin practice.

As Pero said, the confusion that arose from what Sönam wrote was due to the way he worded it, not to what he actually meant. I think that Sönam has a good understanding of the teachings, although English is not his first language. But I can understand exactly what he means most of the time quite clearly.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Sally Gross » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:32 pm

Jacob wrote:You said in this thread that we connect even if we don't FULLY discover during the Direct Introduction... Or there is some seed that enables us to connect to transmission and discover?.


Attraction to the teaching and the practice presumably both forges and consolidates the connection and is evidence of a pre-existing connection. It is presumably not a coincidence that one happens upon one's teacher and is attracted to the teaching: seeking and journeying shows that the seed has been sown and is germinating. This is so regardless of whether we discover what is to be discovered during the Direct Introduction. As I understood Rinpoche, DI puts us on the path of discovery: it points out the way, as it were, but cannot do the work for us.

Jacob wrote:What about situation, when someone received DI many times, but didn't discover or feel anything at all? It has no value then?


DI has immense value: one is on the path. What Rinpoche suggested in such a case is to persist with the practice -- the specific practice about which he spoke in the transmission just now, doing it again and again with due care. DI and the core method of practice sow the seeds. When we persist in practice, we water those seeds. Trust that they will germinate and sprout, and be neither anxious nor ambitious. Do the practice, relax and observe how it feels. That is the path of discovery.

I'm sure that one of the older and more experienced practitioners on the forum will correct me if I've misunderstood something.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:33 pm

I think there's a bit of a misinterpretation going on, but not on your part Sally.
You posted meanwhile and I'm editing now :lol:

It seems to me that what's being said is that you only do Guru Yoga effectively when you can be in the same state as your teacher, the primordial state. So if you are not in the primordial state, you are not in the same state as your teacher. Till then it's practicing until one actually is able to rest in the natural state, the state of the Guru. The more you do it, the more likely your own capacity will increase until you can finally discover and then rest in the natural state. Then it's about increasing the time you can rest in it and the activities you can integrate while remaining in that state.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Jacob » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:42 pm

Lhug-Pa, Sally, Dechen Norbu, thank you for your answers. It made me more calm and determined to practice more :meditate:
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Totoro » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:09 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:\
Yes, that's the million dollar question. Fortunately ChNN answers it frequently. Rushens, Semdzins, the four contemplations from the Semde series are swift ways of discovering the natural state after direct introduction. So yes, there is great value in receiving oral transmission, symbolic transmission and direct transmission, even if you don't recognize instant presence at that moment. That is quite natural. Then, you practice adequately to discover it. If no matter what you do you can't discover it, then you should see the lama and try to understand what is failing.


I've been following ChNN's webcast the last few days and of course today, he gave the DI. Now I read this thread and I went, "WHAT?! There's a commitment??" I did not know that.

I'm new and there is a lot of talk here about whether one discovers one's natural state or recognize instant presence during the DI. Umm...how does one know if one has discovered the natural state or not?

I'm surprised that ChNN reads all his emails, he must receive hundreds! How does one email him by the way? Thanks.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:28 pm

Not a formal commitment, I would say. The commitment is that you practice according to your possibilities. As ChNN repeats often, do your best.
I say it's on your own interest.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhasa » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:12 pm

Totoro wrote: I've been following ChNN's webcast the last few days and of course today, he gave the DI. Now I read this thread and I went, "WHAT?! There's a commitment??" I did not know that.

I'm new and there is a lot of talk here about whether one discovers one's natural state or recognize instant presence during the DI. Umm...how does one know if one has discovered the natural state or not?

I'm surprised that ChNN reads all his emails, he must receive hundreds! How does one email him by the way? Thanks.

Yes, he reads his emails and sometimes he quotes from them in his talks.
I don't know about putting ChNN's email address out on this list. I'll tell you where I got it. I called Harold, the secretary at Tsegyalgar East. 413-369-4153.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby oldbob » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:08 pm

Lhasa wrote:
Totoro wrote: I've been following ChNN's webcast the last few days and of course today, he gave the DI. Now I read this thread and I went, "WHAT?! There's a commitment??" I did not know that.

I'm new and there is a lot of talk here about whether one discovers one's natural state or recognize instant presence during the DI. Umm...how does one know if one has discovered the natural state or not?

I'm surprised that ChNN reads all his emails, he must receive hundreds! How does one email him by the way? Thanks.

Yes, he reads his emails and sometimes he quotes from them in his talks.
I don't know about putting ChNN's email address out on this list. I'll tell you where I got it. I called Harold, the secretary at Tsegyalgar East. 413-369-4153.


:twothumbsup: :good:
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby oldbob » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:10 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:Not a formal commitment, I would say. The commitment is that you practice according to your possibilities. As ChNN repeats often, do your best.
I say it's on your own interest.


:twothumbsup: :good:
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby oldbob » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:38 pm

Dear all and All,

All excellent posts from the heart. :twothumbsup: :namaste:

:soapbox:

Who should attend DC webcast?

If you are asking who should, it is one thing. If you are asking who could, it is something else.

If someone is interested in the Teachings of ChNNR, then they should attend the webcasts: open and closed, if they are a member, and open only, if not.

If someone is not a member, then they can attend only open webcasts.

If someone is a member, they can attend open and closed webcasts.

If you can afford to be a member, it is really the best (this shows commitment to the Teachings, and sponsors the activities of the DC) but maybe you should not sell your gold tooth, or slight your family in any way. :smile:

Maybe it is better to respect and work with your circumstances, and slowly, slowly get the teachings, and keep your teeth and your family.

Instant presence is a birthright. You cannot buy it with money or earn it with good works.

(Shhhhhhhhhhh - I didn't say this.)

If you have a friend who is a member, maybe they will let you listen and you can get the benefit.

In the style of Mahayana, practitioners should help each other get the benefit. Otherwise it is Dzogchen in the style of the Pratyekabuddha. This is also perfect Dzogchen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratyekabuddha

Dzogchen practitioners, in the style of the Mahayana, help each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

Both systems are really perfect and I am not suggesting that anyone should correct anything.

Commitment for/ from the webcast?

This is a strange question.

The humorous answer is that if you are not committed to smiling when you are happy then you should NOT listen to the webcast. :smile:

If you can manage just a little smile - then I think it is OK. :smile:

Here, we are not talking about the 9 Yana system where breaking a commitment sends you to vajra hell.

Here, we are talking about the all good and the ALLGOOD: BODHI gone beyond any quality what-so-ever.

Here, we are talking about gaining awareness of what you already have - and have always had, your Buddha Seed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tathagatagarbha

Here, this is gained through taking pointing out instruction, followed by doing practices that help you develop confidence in, and continue in, that state.

Here, we are talking about the path of result, not of cause.

Here, we are talking about instant presence, which from the point of view of instant presence, has no characteristic what-so-ever, and can not even be spoken of.

Here, the question of commitment never arises or doesn't arise.

Here, "doesn't arise" means that if the question, or anything else, did arise, it would be co-temporaneously liberated, with its arising, and not leave a trace.

Here, if you want a commitment, then the commitment is to do your best: to be aware, and maintain instant presence 24/7. Note: instant presence is not instant pretense.

I cannot remember hearing any Master speak about how YOU should recognize instant presence, maybe this is up to you. All the Masters speak of the qualities of the natural mind, as empty, clear, vast and luminous, pure from the beginning and spontaneously arising, etc.---. "As it is", natural mind has no nameable qualities what-so-ever, and any quality is just an imputation from the viewpoint of ordinary mind, perhaps to help you to be able to relax into it, without any concern as to its qualities.

Anyway, you relax and do your best. (A little like instantly sinking into a hot tub after a long day's work, but with awareness, not sleepiness.)

When you are less relaxed, then there are lots and lots and lots of secondary practices to do.

Happy webcasts!

Good fortune to all and All!

Long life to the Dzogchen Masters, may they live long, in good health and with success in all things.

:heart:
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby MalaBeads » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:39 pm

My dear man. There is so much kindness in your heart. You made me laugh out loud and cry in the same moment.

Whew! Glad that's over!
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dronma » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:55 pm

oldbob wrote:Who should attend DC webcast?

If you are asking who should, it is one thing. If you are asking who could, it is something else.


:applause:

oldbob wrote:Instant presence is a birthright. You cannot buy it with money or earn it with good works.

(Shhhhhhhhhhh - I didn't say this.)


I heard nothing..... :tongue:

oldbob wrote:Here, the question of commitment never arises or doesn't arise.

Here, "doesn't arise" means that if the question, or anything else, did arise, it would be co-temporaneously liberated, with its arising, and not leave a trace.

Here, if you want a commitment, then the commitment is to do your best: to be aware, and maintain instant presence 24/7. Note: instant presence is not instant pretense.


If this is not THE commitment... then what else could it be?
Accumulating some millions of mantras? This is easy! It needs some time, but it is extremely easy.
Some of us we already did it, but we were not liberated through that. Of course, it works fine as accumulation of merits, as constant reminder, as a skillful method for developing good qualities like concentration, discipline, endurance etc. But nobody was ever totally liberated only through relative commitments. That would be easy! Extremely easy! :meditate:
To be aware, and maintain instant presence 24/7. If this is not THE commitment... then what else could it be?

Happy webcasts to all !!! :heart:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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