Andrew108 wrote:deepbluehum wrote:Topic: FREE FROM LIMITATIONS
How you arrive at the state of exhaustion of your mind is up to you. As far as I can tell, ChNN, in every single retreat, extends the bridge for you to cross to the other shore. If you can cross into the state of the guru, you are Samantabhadra. It doesn't mean you are Samantabhadra minus four visions. He has never ever said that. There are three levels of intensity with which you can practice, semde, longde and upadesha. People get pretty jazzed up about Thogal, because there is solid visual evidence of what the guru is talking about plus all the intrigue around the secrecy. And yes they are "wisdom appearances" with the caveat that they are not yet completely pure, because the bodhisattva Samantabhadra, before becoming Buddha saw the five lights, but was not yet buddha. He was not buddha until, based on past knowledge, knew those appearances to be self-appearance. So seeing the appearances of Thogal are not the visions of a Buddha. You are not a buddha until the visions exhaust. And technically, as Malcolm has said many times, the five lights are not actually from pure winds. You purify them in the process of the system. What Thogal is showing you is guru yoga in direct perception. Rinpoche teaches Ati guru yoga. It is upadesha level.
This is a very nice fantasy.
Dear Andrew 108, all and All,
Great posts all.
My 2 cents. (Means I am not in instant presence if I have something to say.)
Dzogchen Teaching is Free From Limitations ---.
From the viewpoint of instant presence, this cannot be commented on in any way.
In instant presence, whatever occurs in my continuum is exactly the same grist for the no-action, single stone (without any characteristics whatsoever), of the instant presence mill. Whatever occurs, or does not occur, is just fine, and is left in its own condition without comment or correction.
A good or bad thought, or an ideational expression of any of the 9 yana philosophical positions, or ANY philosophical position, or any thought about anything, or feeling of any sort, is self liberated on occurring.
In instant presence there is no limit as to what can occur, and be self liberated on occurrence.
In this precise way, Dzogchen teaching is free from any limitation whatsoever. Within this single point, all the conceptual structures of the triple time are resolved.
This is the single point that includes all others.
If I experience the visions of ordinary mind, or Thogal, or Dark retreat, from the viewpoint of instant presence, there is no differentiation among / between these visions.
--- and everything that occurs in my continuum is "seen" (without vision), and "understood" (without thought) as a "very nice fantasy," without any name, or naming, that this is so.
This can only be understood by experience, and cannot be understood by words. Which points to why we take direct introduction from a Dzogchen Master, and then utilize the Dzogchen practices to develop confidence in, and continue in, this unconditioned condition.
Hope this helps.
Now my words are exhausted, but is this the second or third vision? - I get confused. Maybe I am just tired.
Long life to the Dzogchen Masters, may they live long in good health and with success in all things.