deepbluehum wrote:All the manifesting is marigpa. Once you finally resolve the view, there is exhaustion of phenomena.
Even the visions of thogal? You know the exhaustion is the forth vision only.
Until then, there's no buddhahood for the thogal practitioner. You are on the path until the fourth vision finishes. But, now consider this bit from Tilopa, "The uncreated ground of all is clear of the obscuring veil of propensities. Do not engage in meditation and post-meditation, but rest in the uncreated essence. Thus, outer appearances, inner perceptions and intellectual faculties are exhausted." Consider this from ChNN, "if you remain in the state of guru yoga you are a PERFECT Dzogchen practitioner." Tilopa, "When you become infused with the guru's blessing you will be liberated!"
Topic: FREE FROM LIMITATIONS
How you arrive at the state of exhaustion of your mind is up to you. As far as I can tell, ChNN, in every single retreat, extends the bridge for you to cross to the other shore. If you can cross into the state of the guru, you are Samantabhadra. It doesn't mean you are Samantabhadra minus four visions. He has never ever said that. There are three levels of intensity with which you can practice, semde, longde and upadesha. People get pretty jazzed up about Thogal, because there is solid visual evidence of what the guru is talking about plus all the intrigue around the secrecy. And yes they are "wisdom appearances" with the caveat that they are not yet completely pure, because the bodhisattva Samantabhadra, before becoming Buddha saw the five lights, but was not yet buddha. He was not buddha until, based on past knowledge, knew those appearances to be self-appearance. So seeing the appearances of Thogal are not the visions of a Buddha. You are not a buddha until the visions exhaust. And technically, as Malcolm has said many times, the five lights are not actually from pure winds. You purify them in the process of the system. What Thogal is showing you is guru yoga in direct perception. Rinpoche teaches Ati guru yoga. It is upadesha level.