Schools for Aspiring Translators

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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:38 pm

MrDistracted wrote:Thanks.



Just be aware, my course is more of a "How do you read the Kosha", rather than a line by line exposition. I cover the high points mainly, trying to make it practical Vajrayāna and Dzogchen practitioners.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Will » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:26 pm

It is good that enough rugged individualists have trod the narrow, winding path of Dharma translation into English that we have what we have now. But it is bad for the future if only a few 'hobbyists' decide to do this work.

Master Hua aimed high by encouraging many of his disciples to learn Chinese and translate the entire Tripitaka. Whether his DRBA is still producing new, competent translators I do not know. Mr Numata at BDK also has the same goal, but McCrae is dead and many, many more good workers are needed.

I believe it is vital for the survival of the buddhadharma to have Dharma translation schools being run by good translators who can also teach. Whether any or enough English-speaking Buddhist also care about this..... that is the question.
Revealing one essence: this means the inherently pure, complete, luminous essence, which is pure of its own nature. -- Fa-tsang
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:31 pm

Will wrote:It is good that enough rugged individualists have trod the narrow, winding path of Dharma translation into English that we have what we have now. But it is bad for the future if only a few 'hobbyists' decide to do this work.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Will » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:34 pm

The main obstacle is not $$$ Namdrol - but the feeble will & devotion of those Buddhist Gurus, translators & Dharma protectors, to at least plant the seeds of such schools.
Revealing one essence: this means the inherently pure, complete, luminous essence, which is pure of its own nature. -- Fa-tsang
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Mr. G » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:01 pm

Namdrol wrote:There is only one way to be a text translator. Just do it.

First read a lot of books for five years and learn Dharma. Then learn source language. Meanwhile practice as much as you can.

Then, having learned the souce language's grammar, practice in that langauge and translate the shit out of texts for 6-10 years before you even produce something worthwhile. Spend the next ten years polishing your craft. Minimum 60 hours a week working on translations. Read books the rest of the time, when you are not practicing. Do not, under any circumstances, join a Buddhist studies program and so on. Do not expect to make a living. Expect to be poor for many years.

If you want to translate, learn the grammer, start translating and ask qualified people to look at your stuff -- oh and study Abhidharma first.

If you are a poor writer in English, either improve your English skills or abandon hope because your translations will always be hopeless garabage even if you have understood the texts. There is so much hopeless garbage out there it seems we will never dig our way out of it.

Having the blessings of your guru helps.

Many days I generally work from 8 am to around 9 pm, usually without much of a break. I don't do it to get paid, I do it because I love it. For example, this morning i began at 7 am. It is 10 pm. I am still working.

Also remember, if you are happy with your translation, it probably sucks.

N


Namdrol,

Have you ever thought of running a course like the Tibetan Language Institute for those that want to learn how to translate texts for their own personal use? A combination of video lectures online, forum discussion, and personal tutoring options? It'd be a great way for beginners to avoid the pitfalls that others have gone through in attempting to learn by themselves.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Malcolm » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:14 pm

Mr. G wrote:
Namdrol wrote:There is only one way to be a text translator. Just do it.

First read a lot of books for five years and learn Dharma. Then learn source language. Meanwhile practice as much as you can.

Then, having learned the souce language's grammar, practice in that langauge and translate the shit out of texts for 6-10 years before you even produce something worthwhile. Spend the next ten years polishing your craft. Minimum 60 hours a week working on translations. Read books the rest of the time, when you are not practicing. Do not, under any circumstances, join a Buddhist studies program and so on. Do not expect to make a living. Expect to be poor for many years.

If you want to translate, learn the grammer, start translating and ask qualified people to look at your stuff -- oh and study Abhidharma first.

If you are a poor writer in English, either improve your English skills or abandon hope because your translations will always be hopeless garabage even if you have understood the texts. There is so much hopeless garbage out there it seems we will never dig our way out of it.

Having the blessings of your guru helps.

Many days I generally work from 8 am to around 9 pm, usually without much of a break. I don't do it to get paid, I do it because I love it. For example, this morning i began at 7 am. It is 10 pm. I am still working.

Also remember, if you are happy with your translation, it probably sucks.

N


Namdrol,

Have you ever thought of running a course like the Tibetan Language Institute for those that want to learn how to translate texts for their own personal use? A combination of video lectures online, forum discussion, and personal tutoring options? It'd be a great way for beginners to avoid the pitfalls that others have gone through in attempting to learn by themselves.


I have been asked to teach others in the past, but no one stays with the program.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby dakini_boi » Tue May 01, 2012 6:17 pm

Namdrol wrote:http://rsl-ne.com/abhidharma1.shtml


Hi Namdrol,

Could you provide the new link for this course? I know I asked you this once before, but I can't seem to find the post. Thanks again.
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Malcolm » Tue May 01, 2012 9:01 pm

dakini_boi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:http://rsl-ne.com/abhidharma1.shtml


Hi Namdrol,

Could you provide the new link for this course? I know I asked you this once before, but I can't seem to find the post. Thanks again.



That website no longer exists and I no longer have any relationship with that organization or its teacher due to personal differences.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby tomamundsen » Thu May 03, 2012 4:19 am

Namdrol wrote:
dakini_boi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:http://rsl-ne.com/abhidharma1.shtml


Hi Namdrol,

Could you provide the new link for this course? I know I asked you this once before, but I can't seem to find the post. Thanks again.



That website no longer exists and I no longer have any relationship with that organization or its teacher due to personal differences.

Whoa!

So, will you ever get the chance to teach the Pramanavarttika as planned?
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Malcolm » Thu May 03, 2012 4:43 am

tomamundsen wrote:
Whoa!

So, will you ever get the chance to teach the Pramanavarttika as planned?


Not in the near future, no.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Thu May 03, 2012 12:04 pm

Namdrol wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:So, will you ever get the chance to teach the Pramanavarttika as planned?


Not in the near future, no.


Why not go it alone? There is plenty of free subscription style online classroom software nowadays.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Mr. G » Thu May 03, 2012 12:20 pm

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:So, will you ever get the chance to teach the Pramanavarttika as planned?


Not in the near future, no.


Why not go it alone? There is plenty of free subscription style online classroom software nowadays.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby simhamuka » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:28 am

Will wrote:The main obstacle is not $$$ Namdrol - but the feeble will & devotion of those Buddhist Gurus, translators & Dharma protectors, to at least plant the seeds of such schools.


The big problem is that so many teachers now speak English that people aren't as motivated to learn. It's good thing for students, but in terms of translation... *shrug* There are some very good, well-trained translators out there who don't translate because they want to get married, have kids, the house, need a full-time job for all that.

I'm teaching a Tibetan class now. What I'm trying is a six-week class, keeping it bite-sized and simple. Just get people able to recite -- and then see if anyone continues to the next six-week class. I've several interested already. It is depressing to do a long ongoing series and watch interest trickle off, so I'm trying to prevent that. Also, I make students pay for the materials/texts, just to send a message to the student-brain (located somewhere behind the hind-brain) that they are "registered" and therefore obligated to come for those six weeks. It's amazing how people don't want to waste the money they spent.

I've done all of it. Universities. One-on-one tutoring with Tibetan textbook authors, Khenpos, grad students. Going to the monasteries to learn direct from shedra students. Trading English-for-Tibetan classes with Tibetan speakers. What works for me might not work for someone else.

I find I learn fast from universities and at the monastery, but I lean on that support and my energy drops off after. The tutoring works well to keep things simmering, but progress is slow. Trading English-for-Tibetan lessons never works. I always end up just tutoring English, though hanging out together has been a great way to be immersed in Tibetan culture and learn things you just won't learn any other way.

There's no hard and fast rule about what works, except that it's all about the teacher, never about the program.

Sanskrit

University of Washington
Professor Richard Salomon and Professor Collett Cox are both wonderful teachers. Rich has an open, curious mind and treats every question like it's fresh. Collett is like a Sanskrit kindergarten teacher, so patient and sweet, with an air of gentle amusement. Also, a brilliant Abhidharma scholar.
http://depts.washington.edu/asianll/peo ... lomon.html
http://depts.washington.edu/asianll/peo ... llett.html

Tibetan

University of Virginia
I was told by Linda Iltis at UW that University of Wisconsin had the best Tibetan program. Then she learned that Tseten Chonje had moved from Wisconsin to UVA. She changed her mind, "Now UVA has the best Tibetan program." Gen Tseten Chonje is energetic and inspiring. His enthusiasm is compelling.
http://www.virginia.edu/summer/SLI/

Naropa & Nitartha Institute
I list these together because the Tibetan language teachers teach at both. So if you can't afford Naropa, do Nitartha's Tibetan. Acharya Lama Tenpa Gyaltsen is gentle and kind, gives the student a lot of room to grow. Professor Phil Stanley works hard and is gifted with both a talent for methodology and warm concern for others.
http://www.naropa.edu/academics/graduat ... aculty.cfm
http://www.nitarthainstitute.org/progra ... etan.shtml
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Huifeng » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:00 am

It's also easy to under estimate the actual amount of time and effort it takes to really get the language ability alone up to the required level, let alone the deeper understanding of texts and teachings.

~~ Huifeng
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Indrajala » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:49 pm

simhamuka wrote:There's no hard and fast rule about what works, except that it's all about the teacher, never about the program.


I think literacy is quite possible without a teacher provided you have enough motivation and effort.

If you make a hobby out of studying a classical language like Classical Chinese, Classical Tibetan, Sanskrit, Pali, Tangut or Khotanese, then it is an ongoing project that is both rewarding and enjoyable. :smile:

However, if it isn't a hobby from the start, then it'll be a chore.
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:17 am

Huifeng wrote:It's also easy to under estimate the actual amount of time and effort it takes to really get the language ability alone up to the required level, let alone the deeper understanding of texts and teachings.

~~ Huifeng


That's very true. Sometimes it's two steps forward, one step back. I've decided language is like sediment: you just keep layering it in.
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:28 am

Huseng wrote:
simhamuka wrote:There's no hard and fast rule about what works, except that it's all about the teacher, never about the program.


If you make a hobby out of studying a classical language like Classical Chinese, Classical Tibetan, Sanskrit, Pali, Tangut or Khotanese, then it is an ongoing project that is both rewarding and enjoyable. :smile:
...
However, if it isn't a hobby from the start, then it'll be a chore.


I love writing systems. When I was ten I used to want to write Cuneiform, and I started learning Tibetan by copying the seven line prayer on little slips of red paper (with my dad's gold calligraphy pen), without anyone to teach me. I got some of the letters wrong, but I was a kid. :D The great tragedy at UW was that I never got to take Professor Salomon's Ancient Writing Systems class. He used to play with me though, putting up Karoshti on the board and seeing if I could read it without his telling me. It was close enough to Tibetan that I usually could.

I think literacy is quite possible without a teacher provided you have enough motivation and effort.


Oh absolutely. Other than writing systems I seem to do best in either university classes or one-on-one teachings. I'm definitely an oral learner.
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Re: Schools for Aspiring Translators

Postby Pero » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:28 pm

If anyone's interested...
http://www.esukhia.org/en/services/esukhia-learn/learn-tibetan

Esukhia LEARN


Esukhia LEARN is creating modern methods to help preserve and promote the teachings of the Buddha and the Tibetan language and culture which form their main living medium.

The Tibetan language is the key to one of the richest philosophical and cultural traditions on earth. However, it’s under serious danger of becoming a dead language: there are serious restrictions in Tibet itself, many monasteries outside of Tibet are full of non-Tibetan students, and Tibetans themselves often prefer to study English, Hindi, Chinese or other languages depending on where they live.

Esukhia aims to preserve, revive and translate Tibetan into other languages; learning Tibetan is a very personal way in which one can help to keep the Buddha’s teaching alive.


Esukhia LEARN prepares and teaches online courses merging the modern (video-conference, e-learning platform, TFL methodology/Tibetan as a Foreign Language) with the traditional (trained teachers who graduated from Shedras or Tibetan universities).

Our range of 1-to-1 courses includes:

Tibetan Pronunciation and Reading (Esukhia LEARN method)
Spoken Tibetan (Manual of Standard Tibetan with Esukhia LEARN learning tools)
Philosophy Basics (Introduction to Buddhism by H.H. Dalai Lama)
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There are also wider benefits to learning with Esukhia. Tutoring jobs offer comparatively well-paid employment prospects for refugees and also encourage Tibetans to study their language at higher levels.


Esukhia LEARN’s benefits

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Flexible access, available any time, from anywhere
High social impact – employment and training opportunities for refugees
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