Dzogchen Teaching is Free From Limitations

[Mariusz]

It is certainly very uncommon, but certainly not impossible, that recognition and realization comes at the same time. If that always was the case there would only be one statement from Garab Dorje, right? If you feel you have realization you should approach your Guru and tell him that, it can be a very sobering experience.

/magnus

In Dzogchen the state of Rigpa "has" already the all qualities. So i'm not sure you are right. First one should recognize this Rigpa with all qualities. As I understand, after it Dzogchen practice starts. Before all is the preliminary Dzogchen practice only, as extraordinary Rushen or special Ati Guru Yoga, or even ordinary preliminary Ngondro of Dzogchen.

Certainly rigpa have all the qualities from the beginning, it just don't last very long time. Dzogchen practice start the moment you get direct introduction and recognize the natural state, no matter what you are practicing at that time. You just integrate that recognition in whatever you do on the pillow or off the pillow. Realization, in Dzogchen, is when the mind (sem) lost it's grip on you.

/magnus

When you recognize this Rigpa with all qualities, there is no Mind. However one moment later it can arise somehow. It is called Marigpa. Even Samantabhadra can have Marigpa! Please read my notes: http://www.lamrimnotes.webs.com/dzogchen.html . More theory I don't know for sure, I'm a preliminary Dzogchen practitioner yet and I'm focusing mainly on practice

[Tilopa]

. Dzogchen is never aspirational. After the DI there is nothing left to do but study the original Dzogchen tantras.

Don't you study because you aspire to learn/understand/realize more?

[Tilopa]

The question does not compute....

It makes perfect sense to me.

[heart]

]When you recognize Rigpa, there is no Mind. However one moment later it arises somehow. It is called Marigpa. Even Samantabhadra can have Marigpa! Please read my notes: http://www.lamrimnotes.webs.com/dzogchen.html . More theory I don't know for sure, I'm a preliminary Dzogchen practitioner only and I'm focusing mainly on practice

Samantabhadra don't have any ignorance, and so he have no mind (sem) either. Sentient beings have mind (sem) and ignorance. I received very elaborate teachings on this over the years.

/magnus

[Mariusz]

When you recognize this Rigpa with all qualities, there is no Mind. However one moment later it arises somehow. It is called Marigpa. Even Samantabhadra can have Marigpa! Please read my notes: http://www.lamrimnotes.webs.com/dzogchen.html . More theory I don't know for sure, I'm a preliminary Dzogchen practitioner only and I'm focusing mainly on practice

Samantabhadra don't have any ignorance, and so he have no mind (sem) either. Sentient beings have mind (sem) and ignorance. I received very elaborate teachings on this over the years.

/magnus

My Longchenpa extract from the book: If during the manifestation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) there will be threefold Unenlightenment (Wyl. Ma-Rig-pa) this causes the transformation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) for Samsara according to the scheme. Only during the last third Marigpa Mind arises. There is also saying Samantabhadra can reenlightenment, or something like it? Maybe we should ask Malcolm here?

[heart]

]When you recognize Rigpa, there is no Mind. However one moment later it arises somehow. It is called Marigpa. Even Samantabhadra can have Marigpa! Please read my notes: http://www.lamrimnotes.webs.com/dzogchen.html . More theory I don't know for sure, I'm a preliminary Dzogchen practitioner only and I'm focusing mainly on practice

Samantabhadra don't have any ignorance, and so he have no mind (sem) either. Sentient beings have mind (sem) and ignorance. I received very elaborate teachings on this over the years.

/magnus

Longchenpa extraxt: If during the manifestation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) there will be threefold Unenlightenment (Wyl. Ma-Rig-pa) this causes the transformation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) for Samsara according to the scheme. There is also saying Samantabhadra can reenlightenment, or something like it? Maybe we should ask Malcolm here?

Once you overcome ignorance it don't return, just like when you had smallpox you never get it again.

/magnus

[Mariusz]

Once you overcome ignorance it don't return, just like when you had smallpox you never get it again.

/magnus

I'm not sure. there is Eight Modes of Arising of Spontaneous Accomplishment (Wyl. Lhun-Grub)beyond the Mind including Samsara again. Only during the last third Marigpa the Mind arises, not during first and second! During first and second, when beyond the Mind, is the return possible. This I understand as the reenlightnment of samantabhadra.

[Simon E.]

The question does not compute....

It makes perfect sense to me.

Well thats alright then isn't it.

[Pero]

What is the tibetan for "reenlightenment"? I don't believe this term actually exists.

[heart]

Once you overcome ignorance it don't return, just like when you had smallpox you never get it again.

/magnus

I'm not sure. there is Eight Modes of Arising of Spontaneous Accomplishment (Wyl. Lhun-Grub)beyond the Mind including Samsara again. Only during the last third Marigpa the Mind arises, not during first and second! During first and second, when beyond the Mind, is the return possible. This I understand as the reenlightnment of samantabhadra.

I am sure. "To be unconfused and naturally liberated in the displays of spontaneous presence is also called Samantabhadra's ground of liberation." (Circle of the Sun)

/magnus

[Pero]

Once you overcome ignorance it don't return, just like when you had smallpox you never get it again.

Right.

[Mariusz]

What is the tibetan for "reenlightenment"? I don't believe this term actually exists.

I will look at book "the practice of dzogchen for it. Perhaps I heard it also from some Rinpoche, so I will check my notes. However the theory of dzogchen is not so linear as mahayana, especially in Nyinthig, and you can suprise yourselves

[Sönam]

When you recognize this Rigpa with all qualities, there is no Mind. However one moment later it arises somehow. It is called Marigpa. Even Samantabhadra can have Marigpa! Please read my notes: http://www.lamrimnotes.webs.com/dzogchen.html . More theory I don't know for sure, I'm a preliminary Dzogchen practitioner only and I'm focusing mainly on practice

Samantabhadra don't have any ignorance, and so he have no mind (sem) either. Sentient beings have mind (sem) and ignorance. I received very elaborate teachings on this over the years.

/magnus

My Longchenpa extract from the book: If during the manifestation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) there will be threefold Unenlightenment (Wyl. Ma-Rig-pa) this causes the transformation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) for Samsara according to the scheme. Only during the last third Marigpa Mind arises. There is also saying Samantabhadra can reenlightenment, or something like it? Maybe we should ask Malcolm here?

Samantabhadra do not have ignorance, this is clear ... Malcom already answered to that.

Sönam

[Malcolm]

What is the tibetan for "reenlightenment"? I don't believe this term actually exists.

I will look at book "the practice of dzogchen for it. Perhaps I heard it also from some Rinpoche, so I will check my notes. However the theory of dzogchen is not so linear as mahayana, especially in Nyinthig, and you can suprise yourselves

Samantabhadra both possessed igorance (innate ignorance and ignorance that resembles the cause) and once he recognized his own state, he never returned to a state of ignorance.



M

[Malcolm]

]When you recognize Rigpa, there is no Mind. However one moment later it arises somehow. It is called Marigpa. Even Samantabhadra can have Marigpa! Please read my notes: http://www.lamrimnotes.webs.com/dzogchen.html . More theory I don't know for sure, I'm a preliminary Dzogchen practitioner only and I'm focusing mainly on practice

Samantabhadra don't have any ignorance, and so he have no mind (sem) either. Sentient beings have mind (sem) and ignorance. I received very elaborate teachings on this over the years.

/magnus

Samantabhadra had ignorance, but never experienced dualism because he recognized the arising of the basis as his own display.

[kalden yungdrung]

]When you recognize Rigpa, there is no Mind. However one moment later it arises somehow. It is called Marigpa. Even Samantabhadra can have Marigpa! Please read my notes: http://www.lamrimnotes.webs.com/dzogchen.html . More theory I don't know for sure, I'm a preliminary Dzogchen practitioner only and I'm focusing mainly on practice

Samantabhadra don't have any ignorance, and so he have no mind (sem) either. Sentient beings have mind (sem) and ignorance. I received very elaborate teachings on this over the years.

/magnus

Samantabhadra had ignorance, but never experienced dualism because he recognized the arising of the basis as his own display.

Tashi delek,

There would be gross and subtle ignorance. The gross ignorance can be overcome but the subtle one not, this because it would not have a beginning.
Is this in agreement with Samatabhadra's ignorance?

How do you think about this?

Mutso Marro
KY

[Andrew108]

. Dzogchen is never aspirational. After the DI there is nothing left to do but study the original Dzogchen tantras.

Don't you study because you aspire to learn/understand/realize more?

In order to gain certainty one must study the Dzogchen Tantras.

[Sönam]

Samantabhadra don't have any ignorance, and so he have no mind (sem) either. Sentient beings have mind (sem) and ignorance. I received very elaborate teachings on this over the years.

/magnus

My Longchenpa extract from the book: If during the manifestation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) there will be threefold Unenlightenment (Wyl. Ma-Rig-pa) this causes the transformation of the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) for Samsara according to the scheme. Only during the last third Marigpa Mind arises. There is also saying Samantabhadra can reenlightenment, or something like it? Maybe we should ask Malcolm here?

Samantabhadra do not have ignorance, this is clear ... Malcom already answered to that.

Sönam

my misunderstanding ... I knew ignorance was present in the base, but I misinterpreted the state of Kuntu Zangpo as not being ma-rig-pa.

Sönam

[Andrew108]

my misunderstanding ... I knew ignorance was present in the base, but I misinterpreted the state of Kuntu Zangpo as not being ma-rig-pa.

Sönam

Ignorance 'arises' as an expression of the base. It is not 'existent' outside of being an expression of the base.

[deepbluehum]

Which implies success in the practice requires effort on the part of the student - logical really and quite obvious.

Dzogchen's squirrelly. It's not effort in the sense of other paths. The direct introduction, you either got or you didn't. If you didn't get it, you try to be present, practice the semzin and then it is easy to be in instant presence. If you got it, instant presence is beyond effort.