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Extreme is the New Normal - Page 8 - Dhamma Wheel

Extreme is the New Normal

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Annapurna
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Annapurna » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:06 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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tiltbillings
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:25 am

Image

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:42 am

:goodpost:
The more you think about that one, the better it gets. :smile:
:namaste:
Kim

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:21 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:27 am

Alex,
You have slipped back into trusting junk science ahead of the strong consensus of expert opinion (, if you haven't read it yet) and I really don't know why.
As for the potential offensiveness of the 'denier' label: as I said in an earlier post, it is not possible for anyone to be well-informed about the current state of research and still doubt that anthropogenic global warming is real. That means any self-proclaimed 'skeptic' is either not an expert (and should not be relied upon for information) or (worse) is well-informed but is lying. I think 'denier' and 'denialist' are fully justified for the latter. Calling them 'skeptics', as they prefer, makes me the liar.
You are welcome to call yourself a skeptic, of course - up until the point you claim to actually know the truth.
As long as you're willing to learn, I'll listen to questions and try to answer them.
:namaste:
Kim

Edit: Just came across a great graph - which is accompanied by an exceptionally clear explanation of what's going on and why.
:namaste:

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:50 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:27 am

Alex,
Why do you trust one set of people you don't know rather than another set of people you don't know?
That, to me, is the crucial question, because everything you believe about the climate is a consequence of that trust.

:namaste:
Kim

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:32 am

Last edited by Alex123 on Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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andre9999
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby andre9999 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:35 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:06 am


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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:17 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Annapurna
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:47 pm

See?

That's why conversations about controversial topics are a waste of time for me.

People start throwing contradicting expert opinions at each other and try to fill their mutual full cups-.

It's an excellent chance for the contentious and the habitual No-sayers to let off some steam.

Don't you think you are wasting your time, Kim?

But you gotta know it.

But I predict you will not be able to convince Alex. Alex' mind is made up.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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andre9999
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby andre9999 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:08 pm


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Annapurna
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:22 pm

Agree, Andree.

I don't know how made up Kim's mind is, I'd rather say that he is well informed and educated.

I've been a green activist for too long to be unaware of our destructive impact on nature.

This planet may have been going through cool and warm phases since aeons without us, but it may also have to deal with our contribution and HOW that could affect the balance --we are too shortlived to know, and our science is too young.

We can't see the whole picture.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:09 pm

Hello, Andre and Anna,
You may well be right about Alex, but I hope not.
As for me, I would rather think of myself as well-informed (thanks, Anna) than as 'clinging to views' or closed-minded and incapable of learning - but that's what we all like to think about ourselves, isn't it?
How can we tell?
The tests in the Kalamasutta, adapted to the modern scientific environment, might be handy.
More generally, I know how the science 'industry' works - peer-review and all that - and have identified the groups whose work passes all the tests and is respected inside and outside the field. When you get such broad agreement from peak bodies, from NOAA and the AAAS to the IPCC, I think it's pretty solid. When you see smart, expertly advised non-specialists taking notice and taking serious $$$$ action against their own short-term interests - e.g. the governments of China and most European countries - you've got to figure that it must be getting serious. When you see pro-business leaders like Bush (!) and Rupert Murdoch (!!) joining them, you probably should be looking for some safe place, like a Swiss mountain-top, to hide.
But I also do know the science, as much as a lay person can, and it all makes worryingly good sense. If I had to point to one thing that convinced me we were in trouble, it would be the Keeling curve . That one graph, plus the knowledge that CO2 traps heat, is all you need to know to be aware that business as usual in not an option.
:namaste:
Kim

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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:23 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:19 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby Alex123 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:45 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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octathlon
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby octathlon » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:11 am


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andre9999
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Re: Extreme is the New Normal

Postby andre9999 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:23 am

The error in Kim's 100,000 year number is that it's a global number. Portions of the globe have had supportable temperatures for longer.

That's also the same error with Alex's medieval warming argument. Warmer there and colder elsewhere.

Instead of continuing this discussion, shouldn't you people go meditate or do something more useful like watch grass grow?


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