Buddhism & Suicide

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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:09 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:I read the teaching, but like most teachings I read by Tibetan teachers, it feels like he's talking to a bunch of 12 year olds.
I never stop being amazed at what makes spiritual teachers treat their students as little kids, and their students treat them like infallible parents.
Sounds like the ego of a 12 year old kicking back at the wise words of their parents. So you think that the benefits of practice arise from the self, do you? Good luck!
This may part of be what Adumbra means by "not demonstrating what they claim to know".
You obviously never met Lama Gendeun Rinpoche.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Fruitzilla » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:27 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Fruitzilla wrote:I read the teaching, but like most teachings I read by Tibetan teachers, it feels like he's talking to a bunch of 12 year olds.
I never stop being amazed at what makes spiritual teachers treat their students as little kids, and their students treat them like infallible parents.
Sounds like the ego of a 12 year old kicking back at the wise words of their parents. So you think that the benefits of practice arise from the self, do you? Good luck!

Hm? Not really. I make no claims to be a very mature person. I'm pretty aware of my childish side. I'm also pretty sure your allegation is off the mark by a mile.
His tone really comes across as a "wise" parents talking to 12 year olds. How do you expect to get adults from that approach?
As for the place from where the benefits of practice arise, I haven't said anything about that, nor do I plan on doing so.

This may part of be what Adumbra means by "not demonstrating what they claim to know".
You obviously never met Lama Gendeun Rinpoche.
:namaste:


I haven't, but if his demeanor IRL is the same, I can't say I want care to either.

Anyway, let's not hijack Adrumbras thread.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:22 pm

One of the main defects of a practitioner comes from thinking, "I am the one who is practising, so I am the one who will realise this and that through my practice". As long as we think that we are the ones who practise and that any outcome will be because we made the necessary effort, we are completely in the wrong. Nothing will result from that except more ego-clinging and self-importance.
What does this advice have to do with treating people as 12 year olds?
AND...
So you think that the benefits of practice arise from the self, do you? Good luck!
...you want to answer the question or what?
His tone really comes across as a "wise" parents talking to 12 year olds. How do you expect to get adults from that approach?
Grow up Fruitzilla, when somebody that obviously knows more than you gives you advice, only somebody in the throes of teenage rebellion would not heed the advice.
I haven't, but if his demeanor IRL is the same, I can't say I want care to either.
It is normally intelligent that when you have no idea about a subject (or a person) not to comment on it (them). People making baseless assumptions normally end up with egg on their face. Lama gendeun Rinpoche was chosen by the 16th Karmapa to bring Dharma to Europe, Gendeun Rinpoche did all he could to avoid it but... He was one of the very first Rinpoche to come to Europe after escaping from Tibet. Given attitudes like yours I can understand why he wouldn't have wanted to go further "West". I have not met a single person that met him IRL that did not consider him a Bodhisattva. Not a single one.
Lama Gendeun Rinpoche.jpg
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:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Fruitzilla » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:41 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Grow up Fruitzilla, when somebody that obviously knows more than you gives you advice, only somebody in the throes of teenage rebellion would not heed the advice.
It is normally intelligent that when you have no idea about a subject (or a person) not to comment on it (them).
Given attitudes like yours I can understand why he wouldn't have wanted to go further "West".


Hi Greg,

Sorry, but I really don't feel like getting sucked into your mudslinging style of conversation.
I made a few, in my eyes, valid observations, which you apparently chose to take personally.
All fine and well, but for me it ends here.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Seishin » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:21 pm

:offtopic: :focus:

Adumbra. What you describe is nihilism.
Nihilism ( /ˈnaɪ.ɨlɪzəm/ or /ˈniː.ɨlɪzəm/; from the Latin nihil, nothing) is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.


As I had stated before, the Buddha vehemently rejected nihilism. See this discussion on Nihilism http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9288

I do not personally believe for one second that you have achieved what you believe you have achieved. I believe you have some problems which I sincerely hope you'll seek medical help with. However, if you really have achieved what you believe you have then why not do something with meaning like work with disabled children or homeless people etc?

Gassho,
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby GarcherLancelot » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:33 pm

This may sound boring but based on one thing :the possibility of (very?)bad karma for suiciding is imo enough for one to not commit suicide .
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Adamantine » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:21 am

Adumbra wrote:
You never responded to the question about traveling to those places. If you haven't explored the world completely, how can you complain that life is boring to the point of ending your life prematurely? You need to really examine the situation and reflect on the fact that you probably haven't even experienced a fraction of what life has to offer. So your analysis is disturbingly incomplete.


It is true that I have not traveled around the world. But I have been around nearly all the U.S.A (including Hawaii), Canada, and the United Kingdom. I've also explored other cultures in books, through television, and by talking to people. What I see is that, on a superficial level, people are different, but on a fundamental level they are all very much the same.


Sorry Adumbra, but this doesn't cut it! Before I traveled to Nepal, India, Israel, Brazil, Guatemala, Austria, Greece, France, Qatar, Egypt, etc. I had also "explored other cultures in books, through television, and by talking to people." This is just not in any way comparable. That's like saying you know what chocolate tastes like because you saw a chocolate commercial once on TV! Please, try to have some interesting life-experiences before you start posturing the "i've done it all and it's boring and I will die now" rhetoric again, OK?

on a superficial level, people are different, but on a fundamental level they are all very much the same.


Let's talk about it when you've lived in some of these places for at lease a few months each. Anyway, it's not just about the people: it's about taking in new sensations, smells, energies, sights, spirits, sounds, tastes-- everything in some of these places conspires to shift the entire psychic nervous system into uncharted territory. But you need to be open to it.




For example. Every culture has its own idea of what it considers proper sexual behavior. Every sexual deviation you can think of: homosexuality, pedophilia, zoophilia, pedarasty, even rape is considered or has been considered 'normal' in certain cultures. And yet, all these cultures have also condemned certain types of sexuality which they considered immoral. Thus, I conclude that it is human nature to persecute certain sexual minorities and this will happen in whatever culture humans might create.


This is just intellectual rubbish. Please have some visceral real-life experiences! See the world!

Certainly, there are some things I intend to see before I off myself. I very much want to visit Rome and Florence and take in the art there. I'd also like to climb a mountain and get a little skiing in before I die


Great! Now we're talking! I suggest making a bigger "bucket list" and try to get a bit more interesting -both with locations and activities.

There are also some hard drugs I haven't experimented with yet such as ecstasy and LSD. However, I am certain that these wishes will not take more than a few weeks to fulfill. And what then?


Once thing you have overlooked: the nature of existence is change. Your mind is always changing, as is your body, as is everything around you that you relate to. Your self-perception may be in a habitual rut, but this also can change, given time and opportunity. If you try LSD, or shrooms, or Ayhuasca, etc. inevitably something will shift. I am not recommending these things.. but I did plenty when I was young which forever changed my experience of life and this world. The same with travel. If you have never been to Varanasi, in India... (Benares) then that is a mystical power spot that everyone needs to experience once in their life for instance. I can add more to your list if you're interested.

What can you offer someone like me who can go into meditation for a few minutes and experience the equivalent of a really good marijuanna high? Or can jerk off tantric style and experience multiple orgasms that could make the Marquis de Sade jealous? I'm capable of having a lucid dream any time I want and doing any thing I want, experiencing sensations so vivid that I cannot distinguish them from waking life. What does this world have to offer someone like me? It has nothing to tempt me with. Nothing to threaten me with. What purpose is there in living when anything I desire, I can have instantly and anything I can't have instantly, I don't desire? Life simply becomes a series of pleasant sensations that add up to zero. There's got to be something beyond... hedonism.
I can offer you the perspective that your triumphalist vision of your experiences is completely myopic, and does not betray much in the way of what the great mahasiddhas relate as the core of spiritual experience. The boredom of "same-taste" that you describe while you glorify your experiences seems clearly to be quite opposite of the "same-taste" pointed to by the great Dzogchen masters who are always palpably happy, content, realized, and yet who always refrain from claiming any great experience or realization at all.

As for your suggestion that I dedicate my life to helping others, I must tell you that I have given the thought serious consideration and have even tried to put it into practice, but my experiences have been ambivalent at best.
Mixed results in the beginning is no reason to abandon the enterprise.
The sad fact is that most people are not willing to renounce the things that are causing them pain nor are they willing to accept that pain as the price of their attachment. And so they are unhappy all their lives.
True!

Then there are the truly innocent sufferers. The starving child. The AIDS patient. The criminal. I can help individuals like this to an extent, but I cannot abolish the social and economic conditions which cause their burdens. Yes, I suppose I could dedicate myself to helping people like this. It would be a noble endeavor that would keep me occupied forever (I'm reminded of the myth of Avolikiteshvara). Maybe you are right.
Avalokitesvara is a great one to emulate. This is the wish and occupation of the Bodhisattva. But it is best to cultivate compassion for both material and mental suffering.. (even those you deem "guilty".. but you need to start somewhere.. equanimity and patience are something to put on the back burner for now, maybe.)



Going without food for a week, in my experience, clears the mind and lifts depression like nothing else can. If, after a week's fast, I felt great but still didn't feel like sticking around here for another century, then any subsequent delusions from then on would be irrelevent. Going without food for 6 weeks might lead to delusions, but by then the decision to die would have already been made, so what of them?
Anyway, if you don't see the illogic that I pointed to, I don't know how else to say it.

You personally not eating meat a few times a week from the super-market is really not going to save any animals. This is just a simple reality.


I agree. It is simply an ethical principle for me. I don't want to participate in it, even if my non-participation does nothing to change the system.


Fair enough.. but I am sure there are many ways you participate that you aren't even aware of. Anyway, this is getting off topic.

Adamantine, you've been a worthy nemesis.
:cheers:
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Simon » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:04 pm

I am astonished that not a single responder has referred to Tibetan monks setting themselves alight (burning themselves to death) to protest against suppression of their cultural practices.

Re the Jain practice of the sanctified fast unto death, you need to read William Dalrymple. I'd be astonished if any Westerner:-

a) received permission to proceed with the above, and

b) had the courage to do so.

Please also remember that - once you have committed to this Holy Practice - you are not at liberty to change your mind.

I'd like to acknowledge that the original poster's question is a valid one and wish to disassociate myself from any verbal attack upon this person.

I'd like to discourage him from the act of suicide as he is a loose cannon and, therefore, a valued asset to this Board.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Stephie » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:28 pm

Google: Narcissistic personality disorder: And seek help.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Simon » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:21 am

Aha! A psychiatrist on the Board. Good. I am surprised, though, that a narcissist would wish to destroy himself. Wasn't Narcissus the one who enjoyed basking in his own reflection? :reading:
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:33 pm

Adumbra wrote:Assuming there is rebirth, if one commits suicide with absolutely NO desire whatsoever to experience ANY rebirths ANYWHERE, would that person be reborn? Afterall, we take birth because we crave existence. If someone has ceased craving existence -- not just the particular existence they are living presently; but any form of existence period, why would they take any further rebirths?


Well, although you kill yourself without desire, after that action straight away you will just be in another dimension.

You can kill yourself, but you cannot die.

Killing without desire doesn't mean there is no consequent. You can throw the seed of mango to the ground without any desire. The fruit will still grow.

The one that govern is your ignorance. If you feel bored, it means you believe there is somebody get bored. So, instead of killing yourself, it is better you spend time on contemplation or vipassana, to kill your "I".
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby wisdom » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:14 am

Don't lie to yourself. If your life was pain free you wouldn't contemplate suicide. Even if it really is just boredom, there is pain and suffering in boredom as well. The routines, the habits, the patterns, the lack of spontaneity makes us feel claustrophobic, trapped, like we are living in some kind of a grand prison. Where is the newness, where is the interest?

The thought of suicide always arises in connection with pain and ending that pain, as a result its no different from killing yourself because you've been bullied or because you are lonely or because you failed at some endeavor or because you are severely depressed. For now you say its boredom, but a deep study of yourself will reveal other layers of pain that are causing this impulse to arise. That pain has to be addressed one way or another. Either you address it yourself with brutal self honesty and introspection, or you ask for the help of a guru or a therapist to help you talk through the larger issue that you are confronted with in your life. Seeking help is not a sign of weakness, but knowing when you need to seek help and seeking it is in fact a sign of wisdom and strength.

At any rate I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I will say that because suicidal thoughts arise in connection with suffering (even the suffering of boredom) if you kill yourself then the things you crave (such as excitement, newness, perhaps even S&M or companionship of some kind) will arise and you will be reborn in some fashion.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Andrew108 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:02 pm

wisdom wrote:.....Where is the newness, where is the interest?....


Actually this is what buddhadharma is all about. Finding that self-originated newness in experience. Imagine there are practitioners who do dark retreat. How could they do dark retreat when it is such an unstimulating environment? Why don't they go mad or commit suicide? Mostly because every moment is fresh. How is it that every moment is fresh? This is the buddhist path. A buddhist needs to find this out - this is 100% what it means to be a buddhist. Suicide is just a thought. The action comes from ignorance. This is why it is not an action well regarded by buddhists.
Can you imagine being stuck in the movie 'Groundhog Day'? For a buddhist who has a measure of realization they are never 'stuck'. There is always freshness even if the contents of experience are the same. Groundhog Day = no problem at all - fresh as always.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Adumbra » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:05 pm

Simon:
I am astonished that not a single responder has referred to Tibetan monks setting themselves alight (burning themselves to death) to protest against suppression of their cultural practices.


I think that may lie within the area of martyrdom. Even though their death was self-inflicted, they did it in response to religious persecution. Christianity is another religion that makes the exception for religious suicide, whether it be self-inflicted through mortification or assisted by those who do not agree with the Christian's theological views. Most religions forbid suicide for the simple reason, I think, that it isn't a good survival tactic and religions want to survive and perpetuate themselves more than anything else; even if that means its adherents must suffer.

Simon:
I'd like to discourage him from the act of suicide as he is a loose cannon and, therefore, a valued asset to this Board.


Aw.. You flatter the narcissist in me. :)

Wisdom:
Don't lie to yourself. If your life was pain free you wouldn't contemplate suicide. Even if it really is just boredom, there is pain and suffering in boredom as well.


Oh, there is pain as well. But the pain has ceased to bother me. I've just come to accept it, much like I might accept chronic physical pain. If you desire to be without pain then you must focus upon it. But if you accept it, the pain will fade into the background. You'll still feel it, but you won't brood over it like before. I accept my own special pain as the price I pay for loving and caring for others. I wouldn't wish to be without it even if that were possible.

The thought of suicide always arises in connection with pain and ending that pain, as a result its no different from killing yourself because you've been bullied or because you are lonely or because you failed at some endeavor or because you are severely depressed.


Well, you've got me there. In a sense my suicide would be no different from any other provoked through frustration. It's just that I'm not as desperate as the average suicidal teenager. The need for relief is not as pressing.

I guess I am simply at this point in my life where I do not see anything left for me to do. I can occupy myself as I always have. I've spent the past 3 days learning BASH scripting and enjoyed it immensly. But to what end? Beyond the amusement it gives me and the sense of accomplishment I feel over learning this new skill, there really is no greater purpose to it. I'm just killing time 'till my telomeres run out and I drop dead. Judging from how those around me live their lives -- filling their free hours with television and drunken parties -- I am not alone. The religious ones, of course, will assure you that God has a plan for us. My reply to them is why don't they get their ass off the couch, then, and carry it out? Really! God had a plan for Gandhi and Mother Theresa, but the rest of us are just killing time 'till Judgement Day. I think the one's who come closer to the truth will admit that there isn't any ultimate purpose in life, but that loving other people gives us the most convincing fascimile of purpose if we are willing to give it a try. In that case I'm all for loving, but I fear it isn't enough. It's easy to love someone and feel compassion for their pain, but very difficult to actually help them. Maybe that's the root of my suffering. I see the strings that make people dance, but I can't cut them. I can see the storm coming, but I can't stop it. Most people truly believe that ignorance is bliss and so they won't listen to anything you tell them. Why bum myself out over something I have no control over? Thus, my elegant solution: Sit under a tree and meditate and to hell with everyone but myself. :meditate:

Of course, every once in a while I get up and do something fun like burn $20 bills before people's eyes or hand out pamphlets advocating the abolition of the word 'is' from the english language -- Y'know, confront them with something that their programmers haven't given them a standardized response for in hopes that it will startle them enough into asking questions -- but I'm pretty sure most of them just dismiss me as a benign nutcase or a narcissist looking for a fix. Oh well, it's something to do in those tedious intervals between samadhis...

I often wonder how the hell Gandhi did it? Gandhi lights a fire, asks people to burn the papers that their government insists they need to exist, and they do it. I ask people to open their wallets and burn their money and they call me a kook! Meanwhile, the same people believe the charlatans in Salt Lake City, Rome, and Brooklyn who claim to be having telepathic communication with God are not kooks and will do any crazy shit their prophet commands. If I knew Gandhi's (or the Pope's) secret I'd be begging for time out to meditate.
"The first thing you have to understand is that I don't believe in ANYTHING."
-Arahata Osho
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby AlexanderS » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:13 pm

Have you done skydiving?
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby deepbluehum » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:28 pm

The utter futility of life, the utter meaninglessness of existence is THE door to real liberation. In Buddha's day, some Arahats slit their own throats. Buddha said they were liberated in parinirvana. I know gasp the politically correct police will say no seek help don't kill yourself. Let's get down to reality then. Dharma is about death and dying and how you want to go out. So many of my closest family and friends have killed themselves and it damaged me emotionally for a long time. Finally I came to see the utter futility of suicide and any feeling or inclination at all, any hope. I came to think, what is so great about parinirvana? There's no utterly futile party there. At least at the party there is some bliss. If you can recognize bliss and emptiness together, then alive or dead it's all the same. Just die now to your ideas. Live in the heaven of no hope.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:51 pm

Adumbra, have you ever attempted to kill yourself before?
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby wisdom » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:21 pm

Adumbra wrote:Oh, there is pain as well. But the pain has ceased to bother me. I've just come to accept it, much like I might accept chronic physical pain. If you desire to be without pain then you must focus upon it. But if you accept it, the pain will fade into the background. You'll still feel it, but you won't brood over it like before. I accept my own special pain as the price I pay for loving and caring for others. I wouldn't wish to be without it even if that were possible.


Theres nothing special about pain, it happens to every living creature.

Adumbra wrote: I've spent the past 3 days learning BASH scripting and enjoyed it immensly. But to what end? Beyond the amusement it gives me and the sense of accomplishment I feel over learning this new skill, there really is no greater purpose to it. I'm just killing time 'till my telomeres run out and I drop dead. Judging from how those around me live their lives -- filling their free hours with television and drunken parties -- I am not alone.


I suggest you read "Cutting through Spiritual Materialism" and "Crazy Wisdom" by Chogyam Trungpa if possible. You have half the picture really clearly. There is no hope, and existence is pointless. The vast majority of what people do is based purely on their pre-programmed patterns dominating and running their lives. What people think is crazy is often sane, and what people think is sane is often crazy. It makes no sense but there it is.

Adumbra wrote: It's easy to love someone and feel compassion for their pain, but very difficult to actually help them.


Purpose and meaning are contrived ideas. I use to think I had a purpose in this world until I realized that it was all just a big mental picture, some grand design I wanted to believe in so that I could hold out some hope for the future. The only thing in the future is more of whats in the past. Samsara, karma, suffering. Thats why realization of our Buddha nature is so important, and living in the now is so important. Its the only thing that will break our karmic vision.

Adumbra wrote: Maybe that's the root of my suffering. I see the strings that make people dance, but I can't cut them. I can see the storm coming, but I can't stop it. Most people truly believe that ignorance is bliss and so they won't listen to anything you tell them. Why bum myself out over something I have no control over? Thus, my elegant solution: Sit under a tree and meditate and to hell with everyone but myself. :meditate:


The only solution, the one solution. The solution that we would all be better off with if we could only come to the conclusion (All there is to do is to meditate under this tree!). So do that, and to heck with hope and fear and suicide. In your free time study Buddhism, not BASH.

Adumbra wrote:Of course, every once in a while I get up and do something fun like burn $20 bills before people's eyes or hand out pamphlets advocating the abolition of the word 'is' from the english language -- Y'know, confront them with something that their programmers haven't given them a standardized response for in hopes that it will startle them enough into asking questions -- but I'm pretty sure most of them just dismiss me as a benign nutcase or a narcissist looking for a fix. Oh well, it's something to do in those tedious intervals between samadhis...


You can't save people from themselves. This includes you. Nobody can save you, not here, not there. You're the only one who can decide to help yourself.
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby Adumbra » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:14 pm

gregkavarnos:
Adumbra, have you ever attempted to kill yourself before?

Never. Well, not as most would see it. I have done some reckless things, but I didn't do them with the intention of getting killed. I did them for the experience and didn't care if I lived or died.

AlexanderS:
Have you done skydiving?

No. I suppose it's unfair to knock something I haven't tried, but I've never understood why anyone would jump out of a plane for fun.

deepbluehum:
Finally I came to see the utter futility of suicide and any feeling or inclination at all, any hope. I came to think, what is so great about parinirvana? There's no utterly futile party there. At least at the party there is some bliss. If you can recognize bliss and emptiness together, then alive or dead it's all the same. Just die now to your ideas. Live in the heaven of no hope.

An interesting notion. But I'm not sure if hopelessness is possible for me. Humans crave purpose. As Nietzsche said:
A man will sooner pursue the void as his purpose, than be void of purpose.

Sometimes I wonder if Sri Krishna had it right when he said we should act without any fear of failure or any hope for success. Just do right action and leave the rest to chance/indelible fate. Who knows? You might come out lucky and actually accomplish something. And if you fail, no one can accuse you of being a quitter or a bystander.

Wisdom:
The only solution, the one solution. The solution that we would all be better off with if we could only come to the conclusion (All there is to do is to meditate under this tree!). So do that, and to heck with hope and fear and suicide. In your free time study Buddhism, not BASH

#!/bin/bash
X=0
function Meditate(){
meditate
case legs cramp up
X=1
esac}

while [ $X=1 ]
do PursueHopelessCauses
case they ignore you
case you are arrested
case you are killed and reincarnated as a housecat
X=0
esac
done
I often wonder how the hell Gandhi did it? Gandhi lights a fire, asks people to burn the papers that their government insists they need to exist, and they do it.


Gandhi believed in himself, his purpose, his moral values, and his God enough to convince other people he was right. You believe in nothing and want others to believe in nothing as well. Gandhi was a creator of values. You're just a nihlist out to tear things down and salt the earth when you're done.

SCENE: Folsom Prison, 1973
DRAMATIS PERSONAE: Dr. Timothy Leary. Charles Manson
MANSON: You know how it happened. I had been in prison all my life, and when I got out in the
middle of the Sixties, there was a whole new world. Millions of kids cut loose from the old lies, free of
hangups, waiting to be told what to do. And you didn't tell them what to do. That's what I never could
figure out about you, man. You showed everyone how to create a new head and then you wouldn't give
them the new head. Why didn't you? I've wanted to ask you that for years.
LEARY: That was exactly the point, I didn't want to impose my realities. The idea is that everybody
takes responsibility for his nervous system, creates his own new reality. It's the end of the monotheism
trip, remember. You can be anyone this time around. Anything else is brainwashing.
MANSON: That was your mistake. Nobody wants responsibility. They want to be told what to do,
what to believe, what's really true and really real.
Adumbra
 
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Re: Buddhism & Suicide

Postby AlexanderS » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:45 pm

I'm sure you won't be bored in freefall.
AlexanderS
 
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Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

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