Adamantine wrote: Aha, so the sentiment had a morning expiration date?
Is there a problem with that?
No, but I keep thinking if I keep saying it in different ways the essential point may actually get through, and you and others won't keep talking past it.
The essential point is very simple. You either consider ngöndro essential or not for Dzogchen practice. That's the discussion.
There you go again, creating dichotomies where there are none..you must just like to argue. Nobody is claiming Dzogchen in dependent on ngondro. What Dudjom Rinpoche is saying is that in his terma lineage, "for ultimate truth of the Great Perfection to appear in your mind is dependent upon the preliminary practices." You are just too much, DN. Again, no one said the main practice is shallow either.
There's a dichotomy alright: for ultimate truth of Great Perfection to appear in your mind is deppendent
upon the preliminary practices. So, Dzogchen depends of preliminaries. What am I missing?
Please leave personal remarks aside, if you don't mind.
Because this is what your Guru teaches you, and that is all. You apparently don't respect what other's teachers may teach them. I find this really quite problematic, especially for a moderator.
No, that is my experience. Not just what my Guru teaches me. I'm not saying others have to agree.
If for you a moderator having opinions on a topic is problematic, what can I say? Perhaps that you have nothing to do with it and that is simply a disruptive remark, since my opinions on the topic don't guide my acts of moderation. The ToS does.
Yes, revealing? I am clarifying the view of the Dudjom lineage, which I have extensive experience of. I know you would rather her just drop her teacher and lineage, and follow your instructions, huh?
I believe she knows her experience better than you, no? If that's her experience, then that's her experience. Hers, not yours. She's not the first that I meet having the same experience in the same lineage. Your experience, however, is new to me.
No but you sure don't show any respect for the views of others.
That's your fantasy. I just don't have to agree. I speak my mind plainly. If people think they should ngöndro in order to practice Dzogchen, it's up to them.
I did and it didn't do me much good for that purpose. Should I hide my opinion? You sure voice yours loud and everywhere.
What Lamas were ever criticizing his way of teaching Dzogchen? Please give us a list. I don't know of any, I only ever heard a criticism of the video-tape direct introduction, from one Lama.. Now with webcasts they would maybe feel differently. Everything else is a straw man, or your imagination, unless you tell us whom was giving him heat. Because many great Lamas of his generation taught and teach Dzogchen openly: Dudjom RInpoche, Tulku Urgyen, Penor Rinpoche, Lama Wangdor, KDL, and many more. . . This is not unique. He has a particular style of presenting Dzogchen, and his own dream-vision teachings, but please don't pretend like he is this great exception for presenting Dzogchen openly. This is not the case. Some Lama's styles of presenting Dzogchen includes the ngondro. Some styles don't. All of your elaborate prolific posts just keep talking past this simple point.
This is known fact that ChNN talks about quite often. The fact that you don't know of any doesn't mean there wasn't any. I never had any reason to suspect ChNN was making this up. It seems this was rather public back then.
Indeed he has a particular style of presenting Dzogchen. One of the particularities of his style is not considering ngöndro mandatory and teaching Dzogchen without making you go through yidam practice. It seems KDL did the same. Malcom should know that better than me, being his heart son and all.