Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Nemo » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:05 pm

Maybe it would be a good time to go to the gay bar, drink some ouzo and be ready to kick the crap out of some skinheads.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:27 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:... it's a pretty common practice for the Polish police to go so far as to offer free transport for NS activists - both after and before the riots they participate in.
The Greek police do the same thing. There is photo and video evidence of it.
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sönam » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:49 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
treehuggingoctopus wrote:... it's a pretty common practice for the Polish police to go so far as to offer free transport for NS activists - both after and before the riots they participate in.
The Greek police do the same thing. There is photo and video evidence of it.
:namaste:


This is the nature of police ... at the end they become collaborators.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby kirtu » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:22 pm

Nemo wrote:Obama is the perfect example of how the myth of Democracy keeps people from revolting against the system. More right wing than Reagan, he accepts more from Goldman Sachs than any other candidate. The Dems, who are the voice of the left, take more from Wall Street than the Republicans. Try to vote against the banks. You can't.

The only thing that works is grass roots revolt that is so loud the people the elites put in power have to listen. Violence has to be avoided as that allows them to use the massive police state apparatus to crush anyone who speaks the truth.


President Obama is not more right-wing than Reagan. The Democrats are not the voice of the left (there is no actual left in the US). Most Democrats, esp. President Obama, are liberal Republicans with some traditional rhetoric.

You can't vote against the banks. That's true. Actually banks as institutions are now less trusted than Congress in the US.

Grass roots revolt to peacefully change the system will not be seen in the US. The police don't have to take any action at all. The US is a hyperconservative society strongly emphasizing the status quo and overall individual isolation. As a group people are conditioned to "not rock the boat". People consume "choices" offered to them by "legitimate" political choices (so for the most part a vetted Democrat or Republican).

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Sönam wrote:This is the nature of police ... at the end they become collaborators.
Not necessarily Sonam. Up until 1996 when I left Australia, the police force of the state of Victoria had social services and liasion units that worked with young people, homeless people, the gay community, etc... Not to say that it didn't have its fair share of jerks but...
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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sönam » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:25 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Sönam wrote:This is the nature of police ... at the end they become collaborators.
Not necessarily Sonam. Up until 1996 when I left Australia, the police force of the state of Victoria had social services and liasion units that worked with young people, homeless people, the gay community, etc... Not to say that it didn't have its fair share of jerks but...
:namaste:

Then you are lucky. My European experience (France, Belgium, Germany) shows that it's not the case ... in France, specifically, they are (of course not all) a bunch of drinkers (most are specialized in Pastis a kind of Uzo), racists (the very popular way to be, with heavy jokes), gravely machos and intellectually very limited ... but they have the power and use it. Of course this concern only the majority of the staff, the low responsibilities level. But they are the one you are genrally in contact with.

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby kirtu » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:49 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Sönam wrote:This is the nature of police ... at the end they become collaborators.
Not necessarily Sonam. Up until 1996 when I left Australia, the police force of the state of Victoria had social services and liasion units that worked with young people, homeless people, the gay community, etc... Not to say that it didn't have its fair share of jerks but...
:namaste:


Did that continue?

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Thrasymachus » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:18 pm

That is total bs about 1/2 of police voting for Golden Dawn according to "statistics". First off, how do they know what a group or what individual voters, voted for and what is their proof that the fantastic number of 5,000 policemen voted in that one precinct?. Show me where I could say find who my relatives voted for since I know their names and locations. It is amazing what crap most will believe just because it demonizes people they don't like. The traditionally leftist oriented metapolitefsi political order is just angry and wants to sling shit in the media which they tend to dominate in Greece via yellow journalism. For decades they never had any criticism about the huge cultural, political and media power proud Stalinists supporting KKE and the brutalities of the Soviet Union thanks to favoritism.

Sadly Greece had no good anti-Troika party to vote for. At least Syriza did not win or manage to be part of the ruling coalition. If Syriza was elected and they tried to implement their crazy policies, it would take years to recover from the damage of every month of their rule.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:40 am

Thrasymachus wrote:That is total bs about 1/2 of police voting for Golden Dawn according to "statistics". First off, how do they know what a group or what individual voters, voted for and what is their proof that the fantastic number of 5,000 policemen voted in that one precinct?
It never ceases to amaze me how you always play the expert when you quite clearly have no idea. They KNOW that 5000 police voted in the specific electoral district because (and here it is obvius that you did not read the last paragraph of the article) because they have special electoral logs for the police to vote where they serve rahter than where they live. The same for military staff. That's why, for example, here on the island of Lesvos the only area that pulled a high percentage of voters for Golden Dawn was the electoral district of Perama where the special forces military training base (where the conscripts are also trained in hyper-nationalism) is situated, whereas on the rest of the island their share of the vote was negligible.
Show me where I could say find who my relatives voted for since I know their names and locations.
They can't, because your relatives are not on special electoral rolls.
It is amazing what crap most will believe just because it demonizes people they don't like. The traditionally leftist oriented metapolitefsi political order is just angry and wants to sling shit in the media which they tend to dominate in Greece via yellow journalism.
Sieg Heil Mein Thrasymachus! Did you watch the video of the press secratary of Golden Dawn assaulting the two women? When Mihaloliakos (president of Golden Dawn) gave his speech after the electoral results he had a statue of an Italian Fascist emblem sitting on his desk. When his wife drove him to the houses of parliament she was photographed wearing an Iron Cross ring. Remember the video of the huge bald headed Fascist (the death metal freak in the photos I pasted three pages ago) ordering reporters to stand up (and threatening to throw them out if they didn't) in respect of Mihaloliakos when he issued his first post electoral speech? etc... There is no demonization happening here, Golden Dawn are a neo-Nazi party. Now you may support them if you wishbut don't try to bullshit us about what they are.
For decades they never had any criticism about the huge cultural, political and media power proud Stalinists supporting KKE and the brutalities of the Soviet Union thanks to favoritism.
Bzzzzt... Wrong! The KKE never pulled more than 10% of the national vote and the 10% they pulled was due to the fact that they were one of the major resistance groups that fought the Nazi occupation and the ensuing American backed military based Facist and Monarchist governments that took power after WWII. Needless to say, due to their fossilised and outdated attitudes, attempt at ideological purity and confrontationalist approach even towards other "left" groups, they only pulled 4% at these elections. If they don't get their shit together (ie change to a more progressive leadership) the KKE will slip into the garbage can of history much like PASOK.
Sadly Greece had no good anti-Troika party to vote for. At least Syriza did not win or manage to be part of the ruling coalition. If Syriza was elected and they tried to implement their crazy policies, it would take years to recover from the damage of every month of their rule.
Crazy policies? Actually Syriza's position was to call for a renegotiation of the terms of the memorandum: ie neither default nor bankruptcy. Personally (and according to various ecomomic analysts) the nationalisation of banks and utilities and a return to a national currency would have been the best long-term solution for Greece. I mean they just gave the banks here 18 billion euro of tax payers money while they continue to screw every euro cent possible from pensioners and wage slaves. They closed down all the cooperative banks (some of which have been in existence for 150 years), citing insufficient capital, a month before the bailout!!! They did this without actually informing any of the members or staff of the banks beforehand. My family personally lost 10,000 euro in shares when they shut down the Cooperative Bank of Lesvos-Limnos. This year I have to pay 45% tax (16% value added tax, 20% levy tax and 400 euro special tax) on 5000 euro of yearly gross earnings!!! This means that they expect me to live on 3000 euro a year! Just my share of the rent on the house I share with my girlfriend is 2160 euro per year.

You will find that for the majority of the people in Greece a real leftist government is exactly what is needed. Syriza pulled three per cent less than New Democracy even after the terror campaign (you said something about demonization) the media ran against Syriza (and the smear campaign by New Democracy) two weeks before the elections.

Here is a comic by the Greek comicist Tambakeas regarding the leader of Syriza Alexis Tsipras:
alex tsip[ras.jpg
alex tsip[ras.jpg (84.41 KiB) Viewed 476 times
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:07 pm

An interesting video based on a report by The Guardian. The original interviews and newspaper articles were in Greek, but they were pulled from publication and the reporters were sacked. The Guardian ran the articles in order to support freedom of the press in Greece and to disseminate some very important information about the far-right organisation Golden Dawn and their role in the mainstream political field.
http://xstefanou.infowarproductions.com/2012/10/977/
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Sherab Dorje
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