YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Craving: The Origin of the World? - Dhamma Wheel

Craving: The Origin of the World?

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Sacha G » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:45 pm

Hi
It is said that craving is the origin of the world.
Now according to the theory of rebirth, I can understand that craving is the origin of the 5 personal (or internal) khandhas. But what about external phenomena? Do they also originate in craving? For example: trees, mountains, the sun, the moon, the stars???
:reading:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:28 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Viscid » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:32 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:28 pm

The Buddha defined the "world" as the six sense bases, essentially he meant the personal or inner world, not the earth or universe etc


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:00 pm


Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Sacha G » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:59 am

Hi
The 6 internal bases and the 6 external bases are said to constitute the world.
But the external bases designate what is outside of the body (at least for the 5 physical bases).
For example the body is the internal base for touch, and tactile objects (such as earth, fire, air) are the external base.
All the perceptions, which we consider our interior world, are part of the mental external base, i.e, mental objects.
So this still leaves the question open.
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1603
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby appicchato » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:43 pm

The origin of the world is one of the imponderables the Buddha advised against pondering...

Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:14 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Sacha G » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:43 pm

Actually it's whether the world has a beginning or not. This is different from the origin of the world, or the "origination" of the world if you prefer. The suttas explicitly define craving as the origin or the condition for the arising of the world.
I also remind you that suffering and the world are two synonyms within the canon.
:group:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:45 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:58 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:06 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:18 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:36 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:28 pm


User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:38 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:27 am


User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Viscid » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:54 am

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

Sacha G
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:16 pm
Location: France

Re: Craving: The Origin of the World?

Postby Sacha G » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:31 am

Hi
this is a classical theravada thread. In this context, the external bases are the 4 great elements and form derived from them. Especially, the tangible object are the 3 following elements : earth, air, fire. Water is said to not be tangible.
Thanissaro seems to translate "tangible objects" with "tangible sensations" which according to classical theravada (and to buddhism in my view) is wrong. "Tangible sensations" are indeed mental objects, not tangible objects.
:anjali:
Pali and Theravada texts:
http://dhamma.webnode.com


Return to “Classical Theravāda”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine