What is Yeshe?

[Sherab]

Yeshe + Rigpa of Dzogpa Chenpo = Sherab of Dzogpa Chenpo

Therefore the use of Wisdom in translating Yeshe seems inappropriate.

What then is Yeshe?
It is that which has the ability to perceive Dzogpa Chenpo.
A Yeshe that has not perceive Dzogpa Chenpo is the mundane mind.

What do you think?

[heart]

Yeshe + Rigpa of Dzogpa Chenpo = Sherab of Dzogpa Chenpo

Therefore the use of Wisdom in translating Yeshe seems inappropriate.

What then is Yeshe?
It is that which has the ability to perceive Dzogpa Chenpo.
A Yeshe that has not perceive Dzogpa Chenpo is the mundane mind.

What do you think?

EPK sometimes translate yeshe in Dzogchen as wakefulness. For example rangjung yeshe as self-existing wakefulness.

/magnus

[Malcolm]

Yeshe + Rigpa of Dzogpa Chenpo = Sherab of Dzogpa Chenpo

Therefore the use of Wisdom in translating Yeshe seems inappropriate.

What then is Yeshe?
It is that which has the ability to perceive Dzogpa Chenpo.
A Yeshe that has not perceive Dzogpa Chenpo is the mundane mind.

What do you think?

In Dzogchen, shes rab and rig pa are basically synonymous.

Ye shes is Dzogchen.

A rig pa that has not recognized ye shes is ma rig pa.

[Sherab]

Ye shes is Dzogchen.

Is Dzogchen neutral with regard to Wisdom? i.e. Dzogchen is Dzogchen whether Wisdom is present or not? If yes, then since Ye shes is Dzog chen, then Ye shes is ye shes whether Wisdom is present or not. If so, then using Wisdom in the translation of Ye shes would be inappropriate.

[Malcolm]

Ye shes is Dzogchen.

Is Dzogchen neutral with regard to Wisdom? i.e. Dzogchen is Dzogchen whether Wisdom is present or not? If yes, then since Ye shes is Dzog chen, then Ye shes is ye shes whether Wisdom is present or not. If so, then using Wisdom in the translation of Ye shes would be inappropriate.

Wisdom is always present.

[Jinzang]

Ye shes = (inherent, innate, conate, self-existing) (wisdom, understanding)

[Sherab]

Ye shes is Dzogchen.

Is Dzogchen neutral with regard to Wisdom? i.e. Dzogchen is Dzogchen whether Wisdom is present or not? If yes, then since Ye shes is Dzog chen, then Ye shes is ye shes whether Wisdom is present or not. If so, then using Wisdom in the translation of Ye shes would be inappropriate.

Wisdom is always present.

If by Wisdom, you refer to the knowledge of the actual condition, then you are saying that light can be obscured by darkness or enlightened knowledge can be obscured by misknowledge. If your Wisdom refers to something else, then it is merely mundane wisdom and is of no consequence. Calling that Wisdom becomes an obfuscation.

[Malcolm]

If by Wisdom, you refer to the knowledge of the actual condition, then you are saying that light can be obscured by darkness or enlightened knowledge can be obscured by misknowledge. If your Wisdom refers to something else, then it is merely mundane wisdom and is of no consequence. Calling that Wisdom becomes an obfuscation.

Wisdom (jñāna, yeshe) is the basis.

Rigpa/sherab is knowledge of one's actual condition i.e. the basis.

Anyway, you can use whatever word you want for ye shes, timeless awakening, pristine cognition blah blah blah.

These are all just signifiers anyway and of no real consequence.

Wisdom (insert favorite jargon here i.e. Jñāna, God, Brahmin, Yeshe, George, Turiyatva etc.) is a state, i.e. the basis (sthana). It is unaffected by either knowledge or ignorance, cannot be improved or damaged, is permanent, self-originated, empty, radiant, etc., has the three kāyas, everyone possesses it, and so on -- you know the drill.

Anyway, I am tired of debating people -- -suit yourself.

M

[Sherab]

... -- -suit yourself.

But of course, I don't think anyone come here to be spoon fed.

[Sherab]

For those who may be interested to know, the definition of Yeshe that I provided in the opening post was the answer given to me by the yangsi of my teacher's teacher when I posted the question to him. I did not mention this earlier because I want to know what people here really think of it without be influenced by that fact.

[Malcolm]

If one knows [shes] the buddhahood that has always been [ye] naturally formed by nature,
there will be buddhahood of clear realization.
That is the definition of wisdom [ye shes].

Rigpa Rangshar tantra.

[Sherab]

If one knows [shes] the buddhahood that has always been [ye] naturally formed by nature,
there will be buddhahood of clear realization.
That is the definition of wisdom [ye shes].

Rigpa Rangshar tantra.

Earlier you stated "Wisdom (insert favorite jargon here i.e. Jñāna, God, Brahmin, Yeshe, George, Turiyatva etc.) is a state, i.e. the basis (sthana). It is unaffected by either knowledge or ignorance, cannot be improved or damaged, is permanent, self-originated, empty, radiant, etc., has the three kāyas, everyone possesses it, and so on -- you know the drill." Therefore the basis cannot be Ye she since the basis + knowledge of the basis = ye she according to the Rigpa Rangshar.