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 Post subject: Re: Karma in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:53 am 
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With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.

:namaste:


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 Post subject: Re: Karma in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.

:namaste:


What you have to think about Simon is how you met ChNNR, because that is what everyone else is talking about. No one is saying that the natural state have a cause.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Karma in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:23 pm 
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To borrow from The Zen folk..." A goose flies over a lake. The goose has no thought to being reflected, the lake has no intention of reflecting it...it all arises together, goose, lake, reflection. ".
"How " does not apply. All arises in vast emptiness.


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 Post subject: Re: Karma in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 am 
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This was posted by rai in an other thread, listen to it please Simon



The goose have the intention of moving south for the winter and was thus flying over the lake. Intention and action is what karma is and I am pretty sure you have both still.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Karma in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:13 pm 
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You view is duly noted. :namaste:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
Karma/vipaka is operative to the degree that we give it power by identification.
We do not need to be fully realized in order for a lack of identification with actor/action/consequence to arise.
We do need however to be introduced to our natural condition by one who is realized.


From a rather different perspective, karma (kamma) is cetanaa, intention; and cetanaa is presumably linked with attachment for better or for worse. Where there is no attachment, there is presumably no intention in the requisite sense and consequently no karma/kamma or vipaaka. Being in the natural condition, in instant presence, is thus what is called kiriya or kriya in the Paali Abhidhamma, consciousness which acts but is inoperative karmically. On this conception, the actions of a Buddha are kiriya or kriya. It doesn't follow from our being able to relax in a kriya state for a time, however, that karma is a con or that it is irrelevant.

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Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90


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 Post subject: Re: Karma in Dzogchen
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:04 am 
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Cool post Sally. Very interesting.


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