Blue Garuda wrote:
Most of this has nothing to do with the OP's initial questions and everything to do with what seems to me like sectarianism being born as opposed to a celebration of non-sectarian diversity in paths to discovering the same nature.
You are mostly right.
It has only a tangential connection. But you see, if someone is looking for Dzogchen and instead of finding it directly, gazillions of accumulations are shoved down his throat as indispensable for its practice, that may also be a big turn off. I believe that person has the right to know that not every teacher has this opinion.
That's probably a wrong conclusion, but that's the impression you guys are giving me, and probably others new to this who would now have no idea if Dzogchen requires Ngondro, even if they knew what that was, and just run a mile at seeing the bickering.
I can imagine someone leaving here, all set to go and practice Dzogchen thinking that he "only" needs to do ngöndro for such to happen. I imagine his surprise when he discovers he is expected to perform 100k or 400 k x all the accumulations before he actually practices Dzogchen. Perhaps what is seen as bickering should be pointed as clarification. It's not bickering. It's presenting two different opinions about Dzogchen practice.
Nobody seems interested in the idea of using FAQ or sticky threads to lay out the various options, as a couple of us have suggested - it's just the usual heads down and horns locked because my Guru's right and your Guru's wrong.
Well only Admins can stick topics, so take it to them. But I don't think this is a matter of my Guru is right and yours isn't. It's much bigger than that.
Maybe Dzogchen is warming up to a Karmapa-style fissure, or an HHDL-style Gelugpa maelstrom.
I don't believe so. These discussions are common in virtual boards like this, but have little or no impact elsewhere.
Either way, this is really disappointing and a real turn-off, especially as every thread seems infected with the same f'ing issues.
I'm sorry if you feel this way. It's indeed a shame that this subject turns up each time Dzogchen is discussed. Perhaps it's because each time someone speaks about Dzogchen, someone else comes running and cautioning or hinting that this or that approach is mandatory, when in fact it isn't. It depends on the teacher and the practitioner.