Please welcome Henry to the team!

[David N. Snyder]

Welcome!

[plwk]

Dearest ND-la,

It's always refreshing to see how the Admin/Mod team here have taken great strides to accommodate as far as it's allowable and above all that this place stands on its own merits dedicated to promoting and exploring the great traditions of the Mahayana and Vajrayana (like its sister site at Dhamma Wheel to Theravada) and not basking/mirroring in the shadow of some other site, whether still in existence or defunct and do not see any reason why the Admin/Mods have to even remind some to stop bringing 'beating dead horses' or 'past ghosts' into this place...

Hence, I do not see any cause for any self-perceived or imposed fears of some sort of past experience of elsewhere just because of the limited pool of 'similar' ones moving about the online Buddhist fora...
After all, from how many can one run away from in the online world? Until one opens up one's own site?
This is incredibly similar to the situation to the time back when I was in the hospitality world when I used to move around in different hotels as I was progressing up the corporate ladder and meeting certain similar old colleagues and learned a valuable lesson along the way: when in Hilton, do as the Hiltonians do, not what the Hyatt or Fourseasons or Marriott fellas used to or expect.

As long as the current site's TOS is adhered to and the incredible level of openness/willingness to dialogue is maintained, the only limitations left are those in my own mind....

So if I may summarize...this is Dharma Wheel....period.

Henry is cool

[Potato]

Good to see you again, Henry!

[catmoon]

So if I may summarize...this is Dharma Wheel....period.

This is not Sparta? I was told this was Sparta!

[Luke]

Please do be aware that DharmaWheel.net is under new management, and we intend on running the site exactly as it has been so far.

Could you clarify this please? Who exactly is managing this site now?

and do not see any reason why the Admin/Mods have to even remind some to stop bringing 'beating dead horses' or 'past ghosts' into this place...

Other members and I were quite content to "leave past ghosts alone" before Henry arrived. However, Henry is clearly a symbol of these "past ghosts" whether he wants to be or not, and if people thought that all the members here would remain silent about this, they were wrong and that was an unreasonable expectation. Of course, this could be dealt with the E-Sangha way with locked threads and deleted posts, which would only confirm our negative suspicions.

In any case, I think it would be best to hear from Henry himself. Silence doesn't help him right now. I would like to hear him talk about what his intentions are here and tell us a little bit about himself. In this way, we could get a sense of Henry as a person and gradually see whether our paranoia is justified.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Luke,

Please do be aware that DharmaWheel.net is under new management, and we intend on running the site exactly as it has been so far.

Could you clarify this please? Who exactly is managing this site now?

The plan since day one has been that we wanted an administrator from the Vajrayana tradition and another one who identified as a Mahayana Buddhist. This was to get a sense of balance, and ensure that the interests of both traditions are represented here at Dharma Wheel.

Laura (Ngawang Drolma) came on board very early to fulfill one the Administrator positions and has worked alongside me for quite some time to help build up the site. After a long search for a Mahayana admin, Astus showed an interest in the site and the other Administrator role and we were happy to offer it to him. I worked with Astus at E-Sangha and was always impressed by his cross-traditional knowledge and calm demeanour.

Finding another administrator meant that I was free to demote myself out of the role, with David owning the site and looking after any technical issues. I've always been concerned about the image projected by having a Theravada Buddhist administering a Mahayana/Vajrayana forum and despite my best intentions, I've been suspiciously questioned on my motives on more than one occasion. I think it's best for the site, moving forward, for me to just provide 'independent advice' and not play such an active role. So that's the difference Laura was referring to... Astus in, Retro out.

I am confident in Laura and Astus doing a good job running Dharma Wheel - I wouldn't have stepped aside if I wasn't. I also feel they share similar values in regards to transparency and respectfully treating members like the adults they are... these are foundational values of Dhamma Wheel and Dharma Wheel, and are reflected in the their Terms Of Service and complaints procedures. I really don't see that changing.

Please try to give Dharma Wheel's recent volunteers a chance to settle into their roles and feel welcome. I understand they might need some time to earn some people's trust, but they should be given a fair opportunity to do so.



Metta,
Retro.

[Sönam]

I've always been concerned about the image projected by having a Theravada Buddhist administering a Mahayana/Vajrayana forum and despite my best intentions, I've been suspiciously questioned on my motives on more than one occasion. I think it's best for the site, moving forward, for me to just provide 'independent advice' and not play such an active role. So that's the difference Laura was referring to... Astus in, Retro out.



Metta,
Retro.

Hi Retro,

I've always appreciate your equanimity, even when Theravadin Administrator in e-sangha were a bit ... authoritarian.
I'm sure next time you'll rebirth as a vajra practitioner ( )


Sönam

[Ngawang Drolma]

Of course, this could be dealt with the E-Sangha way with locked threads and deleted posts, which would only confirm our negative suspicions.

That's not my intention and I doubt the other mods or admins feel inclined to edit or lock this.

Best,
Laura

[Annapurna]

Welcome, Henry! My heart jumped when I saw your name!

Thanks for your good wishes and prayers for my brother back in e sangha.

Anna

[henry]

please don't worry....

firstly, i am not a dictator. the previous E-Sangha was of coz maintained by a group of volunteers. i do not pass any ban or suspension but we discussed it with the E-Sangha Admin team.

secondly, i do not always agree with some members of E-Sangha Admin team in the discussion to decide a suspension or a ban.

thirdly, although i follow Sakya tradition, i am generally quite non-sectarian.

so therefore, since this is a new forum under different mgt team, please have a peace of the mind.

[Luke]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for replying. Based on those few lines, you sound understanding enough. Good luck here.

*switches off the DW red alert button, stretches, sighs, gets a cold beverage*

I think it's best for the site, moving forward, for me to just provide 'independent advice' and not play such an active role. So that's the difference Laura was referring to... Astus in, Retro out.

Ah, I see. There's nothing to worry about then. I'm sure Laura and Astus will do a great job.

I've always been concerned about the image projected by having a Theravada Buddhist administering a Mahayana/Vajrayana forum and despite my best intentions, I've been suspiciously questioned on my motives on more than one occasion.

Really? Well, for the record, I've always enjoyed having you and David around. You two started this site off in the right direction and that's no small thing. I have great confidence in both of you, so I hope you'll both drop by on occasion.

[Ngawang Drolma]

Ah, I see. There's nothing to worry about then. I'm sure Laura and Astus will do a great job.

Aw, thanks

I try. So far I've been an Administrator here for over a year and I haven't had any big complaints (knocks on wood).

Best,
Laura

[noclue]

Just so there's no misunderstanding about my previous posts, I completely support Henry's online efforts, in fact I tried to talk Jundo Cohen Roshi and Nonin Chowaney Roshi to take down the E-sangha Watch website in a discussion at zenforuminternational.org. Unfortunately they would not budge on the issue. In my opinion they just wanted to have some control of Henry's website. Note what Rev. Nonin Chowaney writes at the conclusion of his public statement about E-sangha:

The only way that I would even consider returning would be if a couple of changes in the Terms of Service were adopted, a massive change in the culture of E-sangha was facilitated - such as total transparence, democracy rather than dictatorship…

Also note that there are no such inclusions in the ZFI terms of service where Nonin Chowaney currently administrates.

Again, I was only expressing a concern for the wellbeing of this website. I meant no disrespect or lack of support for Henry.

Well, Mr Shel, there are a couple of things wrong with your post, Sir. Neither of those teachers carry the title "Roshi", Nonin is not an adminitrator of ZFI, but a Global Moderator, E-Sangha was not Henry's website but Leo's (both of them are Singaporean though) and from little I can tell ZFI is a far cry from ESangha as far as enforcing certain "orthodox" views is concerned.

Methinks I spy a teenee-weenee chip on someone's virtual shoulder?

[shel]

Just so there's no misunderstanding about my previous posts, I completely support Henry's online efforts, in fact I tried to talk Jundo Cohen Roshi and Nonin Chowaney Roshi to take down the E-sangha Watch website in a discussion at zenforuminternational.org. Unfortunately they would not budge on the issue. In my opinion they just wanted to have some control of Henry's website. Note what Rev. Nonin Chowaney writes at the conclusion of his public statement about E-sangha:

The only way that I would even consider returning would be if a couple of changes in the Terms of Service were adopted, a massive change in the culture of E-sangha was facilitated - such as total transparence, democracy rather than dictatorship…

Also note that there are no such inclusions in the ZFI terms of service where Nonin Chowaney currently administrates.

Again, I was only expressing a concern for the wellbeing of this website. I meant no disrespect or lack of support for Henry.

Well, Mr Shel, there are a couple of things wrong with your post, Sir. Neither of those teachers carry the title "Roshi"...

Oops!

Nonin is not an adminitrator of ZFI, but a Global Moderator...

I've watched and studied how ZFI has developed from the very beginning, from the inside out, and am quite familiar with those who run it and what their particular sensibilities are.

I happen to have work related interests in how online social networks develop.

E-Sangha was not Henry's website but Leo's (both of them are Singaporean though)...

Oops!!

and from little I can tell ZFI is a far cry from ESangha as far as enforcing certain "orthodox" views is concerned.

I never even suggested such a thing. You're confusing what I wrote with what others have written on this thread. I only pointed out the apparent contradiction that what Rev. Nonin Chowaney demands of other Buddhist internet forums he fails to enact on the one in which he is currently partnered with. I say apparent contradiction because that's just the way it appears. As I suggested before it's my opinion that Rev. Nonin Chowaney and his associates are interested in controlling how their tradition is represented on the internet. They frequently attest to this themselves so it's not news. Values such as transparency and democracy are secondary to this primary interest and I believe that's why they are not included in the ZFI terms of service.

Methinks I spy a teenee-weenee chip on someone's virtual shoulder?

Why would I have a chip on my shoulder? And if I do have a chip on my shoulder does that invalidate everything I've said on the subject? Is E-sangha Watch an expression of a chip on someones shoulder? and if so does that invalidate the whole website as the rantings of disturbed individuals?


*** Sorry for this cross chatter in a thread dedicated to welcoming Henry to the team ***

****** Welcome Henry! ******

[noclue]

Methinks I spy a teenee-weenee chip on someone's virtual shoulder?

Why would I have a chip on my shoulder? And if I do have a chip on my shoulder does that invalidate everything I've said on the subject? Is E-sangha Watch an expression of a chip on someones shoulder? and if so does that invalidate the whole website as the rantings of disturbed individuals?

"Why" is for you to know as is question of "the disturbed individual" an expression I never use.

May you be well, Sir!

_/|\_

[shel]

A clue:

Attacking a persons character instead of what they are saying is a logical fallacy known as an ad hominem. It's basically used when there's no real interest in the truth.

Don't get me wrong though, I love games too.

[noclue]

You are getting me all wrong, Mr Shel. For all I know, you may be exactly the sort of guy, I'd want for a son-in-law (or a father-in-law) and I do love my daughter dearly.

What I've tried to do here is question some particulars of your post, their factual accuracy and their motivation. As far as your character is concerned I wouldn't have the faintest idea. You may be a fine upstanding member of your community. As I said - all that's for you to know.

I am sorry if it came across otherwise.

_/|\_

[shel]

You are getting me all wrong, Mr Shel. For all I know, you may be exactly the sort of guy, I'd want for a son-in-law (or a father-in-law) and I do love my daughter dearly.

Alright... I wasn't trying to apply for family membership but that's cool. Just don't expect me to start dating your son or daughter. And I'm sorry to say the father-in-law position is not possible, sorry.

What I've tried to do here is question some particulars of your post, their factual accuracy...

And I appreciate it. I was wrong about the Roshi titles and I did have Henry confused with Leo.

and their motivation.

I explicitly stated what my motivations were, to correct any misunderstanding that I was not supportive of Henry and I offered relevant evidence to support my uh... support. Maybe too much support, aye. Anyway, please review previous posts.

As far as your character is concerned I wouldn't have the faintest idea.

You suggested that I may have a chip on my shoulder and that comment addressed my character rather than what I was saying. Perhaps you did this unwittingly, that's usually how logical fallacies are employed. They are also used intentionally of course.

You may be a fine upstanding member of your community. As I said - all that's for you to know.

Actually my community standing would be for my community to know.

I am sorry if it came across otherwise.

If what came across other than what? If your responses came off other than cordial or logical? Well, no one's perfect. All is forgiven.

[Ngawang Drolma]

I offered relevant evidence to support my uh... support.

I know, and that was cool

Best,
Laura

[BFS]