Who knows?

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Who knows?

Postby shy tsering choedon » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:23 am

I am a novice by experieence though neary a year has passed since I took the Boddhisattva Vow and the Refuge Vows nine days later... about two weeks latter I expereinced something that I really didn't understand - time spent in blankness of not thinking, feeling or making images - but observing and aware -

This experience occurred at a Rinpoche's birthday celebration... I thought it might have been the red teaI dreank - a sangha member told me is was 'spiked' - maybe he was joking, maybe he wasn't I never knew. But then something similar happened at a Dzogen retreat in Hong Kong last month (May 16-20).

This blank state at the Dzogen retreat went on for over an hour - nearly an hour and a half... It was qualitatively diffrent from the previous blank state - but the impact (no thinking, no feelings, no mental images) was the same...

I have talked to one fellow who practices Buddhism at the college where I teach at in China - he said that was the first step on this path - to be blank like that...

But what I was wondering is this:

Why is trying to determine what this state is cause a problem? Or why does asking questions about this cause anegative responses?

I find this very confusing...

Are we just supposed to grope our way forward on this path and not ask about things that are confusing or that you are uncertain about?

Why, if this is a good thing, did it produce a negative response?

Aren't we supposed to talk about this to anyone??
Is is somekind of secret?
Or maybe I have it all wrong... IDK...

I had only practiced some group meditations briefly - maybe 15 times- when this happened the first time was probably spontaneous...

And then after I came to China - I haven't progressed at all - not doing any practices- so the blank state at the Dzogen retreat was spontaneous too.

But these are only guesses - maybe I don't undestand anything at all or I've got it all totally wrong...IDK...

Any thing anyone is willing to post in rsponse to this is most welcome - all feedback is greatly appreciated.

With Respect,
Shy Tsering Choedon
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Re: Who knows?

Postby Nemo » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:34 pm

This sounds like a meditative state that is great to experience, but is considered a poor path to follow in the long run. Most don't talk aobut it because it is a dead end. (I hope that idiom translates well.)That direction can lead to becoming a dried up mediator in a cave. Most Buddhist Lama's would say that path has insufficient Bodhicitta.

Perhaps one of our more eloquent members can say more.
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Re: Who knows?

Postby shy tsering choedon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:49 am

Thank you for your response.

I know this might sound incredibly ignorant but I have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't have a teacher.

I don't know anyone I can ask about these things aside from the other teacher who has already told me that this is "the first step" on the path or whatever...

I can understand what "deadend " denotes...

But since these things happen spontaneously - what does one do?

It is not clear why this even happens... or how one would conteract such an occurance...

My ignorance of these matters is profuound.
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Re: Who knows?

Postby Jesse » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:24 pm

But since these things happen spontaneously - what does one do?


If you have no control over it, what can be done about it?

It is not clear why this even happens... or how one would conteract such an occurance..


I'm not claiming I know what your experiencing, but meditation in some people can cause all sorts of experiences, even on days when you have not meditated. Random euphoria, experiences like this, other strange bodily sensations. I think it's better to just ignore it and keep practicing.

Thinking about things too much only causes problems in my experience.
"We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Who knows?

Postby shy tsering choedon » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:34 am

Thank you for your response. it is good to know that these expereinces can happen as a by-product of meditation or in conjunction with or as a result of engaging in mediation practices. I didn't know that.

I really haven't meditated since August/September... I was warned on anoter Buddhist forum not to engage in an practices without a teacher..

I learned some kind of practice (Tun) at the retreat last month - but I never understood the instructions clearly and I'm not totally clear on what to do concerning the visualization portion, so I haven't undertaken this practice either.

However, I found your response to be very helpful- it refers to something I wasn't even aware of and had never even considered.

Again, my thanks.

With Respect,
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Re: Who knows?

Postby Adamantine » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:43 am

shy tsering choedon wrote:Thank you for your response. it is good to know that these expereinces can happen as a by-product of meditation or in conjunction with or as a result of engaging in mediation practices. I didn't know that.

I really haven't meditated since August/September... I was warned on anoter Buddhist forum not to engage in an practices without a teacher..

I learned some kind of practice (Tun) at the retreat last month - but I never understood the instructions clearly and I'm not totally clear on what to do concerning the visualization portion, so I haven't undertaken this practice either.

However, I found your response to be very helpful- it refers to something I wasn't even aware of and had never even considered.

Again, my thanks.

With Respect,
shy tsering choedon


It sounds like you did a retreat with Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Who knows?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:45 pm

shy tsering choedon wrote:I am a novice by experieence though neary a year has passed since I took the Boddhisattva Vow and the Refuge Vows nine days later... about two weeks latter I expereinced something that I really didn't understand - time spent in blankness of not thinking, feeling or making images - but observing and aware -

This experience occurred at a Rinpoche's birthday celebration... I thought it might have been the red teaI dreank - a sangha member told me is was 'spiked' - maybe he was joking, maybe he wasn't I never knew. But then something similar happened at a Dzogen retreat in Hong Kong last month (May 16-20).

This blank state at the Dzogen retreat went on for over an hour - nearly an hour and a half... It was qualitatively diffrent from the previous blank state - but the impact (no thinking, no feelings, no mental images) was the same...

I have talked to one fellow who practices Buddhism at the college where I teach at in China - he said that was the first step on this path - to be blank like that...

But what I was wondering is this:

Why is trying to determine what this state is cause a problem? Or why does asking questions about this cause anegative responses?

I find this very confusing...

Are we just supposed to grope our way forward on this path and not ask about things that are confusing or that you are uncertain about?

Why, if this is a good thing, did it produce a negative response?

Aren't we supposed to talk about this to anyone??
Is is somekind of secret?
Or maybe I have it all wrong... IDK...

I had only practiced some group meditations briefly - maybe 15 times- when this happened the first time was probably spontaneous...

And then after I came to China - I haven't progressed at all - not doing any practices- so the blank state at the Dzogen retreat was spontaneous too.

But these are only guesses - maybe I don't undestand anything at all or I've got it all totally wrong...IDK...

Any thing anyone is willing to post in rsponse to this is most welcome - all feedback is greatly appreciated.

With Respect,
Shy Tsering Choedon

You do very well to ask about it, but perhaps you should ask it to a qualified teacher. It seems you had an interesting experience of a state without thoughts. You could have tried to shift your attention to whom was having that experience and proceed from there. But as I said, it's always better to ask these things to qualified teachers.
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Re: Who knows?

Postby Sherlock » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:52 am

You are referring to Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's retreat that you attended? There's a large community of other practitioners who can help you out, many of us post on the Dzogchen subforum here and there's a community in China/Hong Kong too. Are you better at Chinese or English?
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Re: Who knows?

Postby Yudron » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:05 pm

This is subtle stuff, and I would recommend finding a well-regarded lama and discussing this in person with him or her. You will get all kinds of advice on-line, but it is unlikely it will be from a realized person who has the capacity to evaluate your experience correctly and guide you. I'm saying this as someone who is, on paper, one of the more qualified Vajrayana practitioners you are likely to interact with in this kind of forum, and I do not have the capacity to guide you.
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Re: Who knows?

Postby greentara » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:11 am

A geat spiritual teacher from the sub continent said "It is not a blank"
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Re: Who knows?

Postby ground » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:30 am

shy tsering choedon wrote:But what I was wondering is this:

Why is trying to determine what this state is cause a problem? Or why does asking questions about this cause anegative responses?

Don't know.

shy tsering choedon wrote:Are we just supposed to grope our way forward on this path and not ask about things that are confusing or that you are uncertain about?

What is "path"?

shy tsering choedon wrote:Why, if this is a good thing, did it produce a negative response?

What makes "good" and what makes "bad"?
Don't know.

shy tsering choedon wrote:Aren't we supposed to talk about this to anyone??

Don't have a boss so I don't know what I may be supposed to do or not to do.

shy tsering choedon wrote:Is is somekind of secret?

Everything is trivial.

Good luck.


:meditate:
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Re: Who knows?

Postby DarwidHalim » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:40 am

You said you are in blank state, but you are also aware and observing.

So, in this state you are just in the state of no thoughts. Nothing is wrong with that. Just like we sleep without dream. No problem.

Unless you purposely blank your mind, then soon or later you will be in trouble.

If it is natural, no problem.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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