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Ordination without parents permission, is that possible? - Dhamma Wheel

Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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yamaka
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Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby yamaka » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:11 am

Dear all Dhamma friends,

I have heard from some Myanmar's tradition Bhikkhu, indicated that in Myanmar, if someone intent to get ordained and his parents is not allow, he is eligible to find someone to become his adoptive parents and make his qualifications valid.

Further more, they saying that, if one's parents are not a Buddhist, he is also eligible to get ordain without his parents permission, all of the basis are from the Vinaya commentaries and the Dhammapada commentaries, thus the Ven. Revata's example.(younger brother of Ven. Sariputta)

I have searched the information regarding this issue, most of the Vinaya texts(including earlier Buddhism schools) are stated if ones wishes to get ordained, he must get the permission from the parents and I have asked the Thai tradition's Bhikkhu too then they're denied the above statement.

Please give your comment for this issue.

With Metta,
:namaste:

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Sobeh
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Sobeh » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:21 am

It's the tenth question asked during the ceremony for higher ordination, I can't see a way around that.

1. Do you suffer from leprosy?
2. Have you got boils?
3. Have you got eczema?
4. Have you got tuberculosis?
5. Do you get epilepsy?
6. Are you a human being?
7. Are you a man?
8. Are you a free man?
9. Are you free from government service?
10. Have you got your parents' permission to be ordained?
11. Have you a set of three robes and an almsbowl?
12. What is your name?
13. What is your preceptor's name?

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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:17 am

Where there's a will, there's a way! :heart:
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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retrofuturist
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:42 am

Greetings Yamaka,

I think you can be a samanera without parental permission.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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yamaka
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby yamaka » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:53 am


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yamaka
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby yamaka » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:54 am


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yamaka
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby yamaka » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:02 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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yamaka
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby yamaka » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:05 am


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Sobeh
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Sobeh » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:41 pm

So ordination sans parental permission can occur in cases where the parents are, through family tradition and/or the broader culture, going to add householder fetters to one so motivated? (i.e. an arranged marriage) I suppose it seems to reflect the intention of the pre-renunciate. In the Sutta, the new monk was off to the forest, he didn't hang about...

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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:57 pm

And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning

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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:18 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby appicchato » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:48 pm


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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Ytrog » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:08 pm

Was epilepsi a recognized condition in those days? :O

If I remember correctly the rule that parents need to give permission is based upon the fact that people had a responsibility for their parents and their livelyhood and that parents need to relieve their child of that responsibility. Am I correct?

These days that is not really a big factor anymore now that people are more supported by the government when they grow old or something happens to them. Would that rule still be strictly applied these days? It was said that the Maha Nikaya is not that strict. Does this include the Ajahn Chah lineage in this respect?
Is there anything possible when parents refuse? An appeal of some kind?

I do believe that most parents want their children to be happy in their lives and wouldn't refuse if someone is really serious. Otherwise you can try hanging in a tree and threatening to let go of the branch. That is a way to ordain if your parents refuse. :tongue:

nalandaleong
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby nalandaleong » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:20 am

sorry, not very sure of the requisites.
What if both parents are deceased ?
What if the spouse or children object ?
Is it still possible to be ordained under such circumstances ?

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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby JimKai » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:44 pm


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Ytrog
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Ytrog » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:58 pm

Could they, in those days, distinguis between eczema and a fungal infection? :thinking:

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JimKai
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby JimKai » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:50 pm


Bankei
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Bankei » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:13 pm

It is possible to ordain without parent's permission.

I ordained into the Mahanikaya in Thailand without having my parent's permission. Although they would have given it, I just used my Thai 'parents' for the ceremony.

There is also a 'loophole' whereby a candidate can ordain without the permission by threatening to harm himself.
See
Crosby, Kate
2005 "Only if you let go of that Tree: Ordination without Parental Consent according to Theravåda Vinaya." Buddhist Studies Review

Bankei
-----------------------
Bankei

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Ytrog
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Re: Ordination without parents permission, is that possible?

Postby Ytrog » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:39 am

Isn't using those Thai "parents" a form of deceit or did the monks know? Is this customary in Thailand?


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