@DalaiLama

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

@DalaiLama

Postby Malcolm » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:55 pm

@DalaiLama
I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12160
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Andrew108 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:02 pm

Nice quote and true. I wonder if HHDL's twitter stream is updated by him personally? Or is it someone from his office pulling quotes from his books?
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
Andrew108
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby muni » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:33 pm

Not to cling to religion; not to reject, not to accept... to fit me.

"My faith enjoins me to strive for the welfare and benefit of all sentient beings. I am confident that it is both possible and worthwhile to attempt a new secular approach to universal ethics. My confidence comes from my conviction that all of us, all human beings; are basically inclined or disposed toward what we percieve to be good...In the view of this, I am of the firm opinion that we have within our grasp a way, and a means, to ground inner values without contradicting any religion and yet, cruciallly, without depending on religion".

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Religion-E ... B005DXOOTW

In the book in which I ran over the titles only, is compassion and mindfulness/awareness , tolerance and understanding crucial.
muni
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby MalaBeads » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:04 pm

In a recent hour long interview on CNN, HHDL said he does not post his own tweets.
MalaBeads
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:47 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Dechen Norbu » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:45 pm

I would find hard that he would post them himself. However, I'm pretty confident he knows what is posted there.
User avatar
Dechen Norbu
 
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Will » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:@DalaiLama
I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.


His last two books have been sounding this keynote.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1922
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Wesley1982 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:39 pm

That would be in the realm of Transcendent Philosophy . . .
User avatar
Wesley1982
 
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Huifeng » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:06 am

Malcolm wrote:@DalaiLama
I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.


Great.

But, what does he mean by "religion", "spirituality" and "ethics", exactly?

~~ Huifeng
User avatar
Huifeng
 
Posts: 1469
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:20 am

"But, what does he mean by "religion", "spirituality" and "ethics", exactly?

Buddhadharma.
User avatar
Tilopa
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:53 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:24 am

That's the hard question. There is not an exact 1:1 correspondence between 'dharma' and 'religion' in my view. They correspond in some respects and differ in others. The problem is the 'culture wars' in the West have become so divisive and so emotive that you can't see the flame for the smoke. As soon as you mention anything that even sounds 'religious' to a lot of people, it's shields up, attack mode. I think HH is trying to move the issue out of that zone.
Learn to do good, refrain from evil, purify the mind ~ this is the teaching of the Buddhas
User avatar
Wayfarer
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:34 am

Greetings,

Huifeng wrote:But, what does he mean by "religion", "spirituality" and "ethics", exactly?

Indeed.

Maitri,
Retro. :)
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes

Dhamma Wheel (Theravada forum) * Here Comes Trouble
User avatar
retrofuturist
Founding Member
 
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Huifeng » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:47 am

Tilopa wrote:
"But, what does he mean by "religion", "spirituality" and "ethics", exactly?

Buddhadharma.


Plugging that into the quote:
"I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

"I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about Buddhadharma beyond Buddhadharma altogether." ??

I know that is not what you mean, I'm just kidding!

But, my question is still there. In the end, a few words aside, what is actually meant by this? Or are we just exchanging one word for another word, putting the old wine into new bottles, so to speak?

I was just wondering if this is kind of psychological thing. We have some words expressing ideas, but somehow, within those ideally positive and wholesome words and ideas, something evil and nasty has crept in. But, not willing to fully face the problem, we bifurcate the idea now into two words - we put the good stuff into a new word, and jettison the nasty stuff into the older, original word. Linguistically at least, we have purged ourselves of the evil, and are now safe and pure.

But, really?

~~ Huifeng (just rambling to myself! :smile: )
User avatar
Huifeng
 
Posts: 1469
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Huifeng » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:50 am

One could possibly suggest other examples throughout the history of Buddhist thought, or other religious (!) thought, political thought, etc. whereby we do the same thing. Purging words of negative connotations, in order to uphold a kind of sacred religious terminology, freed of evil.

Okay, enough blather from me, I'm off to teach my classes of the semester, huzzah! :twothumbsup:

~~ Huifeng
User avatar
Huifeng
 
Posts: 1469
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:26 am

Huifeng wrote:
Malcolm wrote:@DalaiLama
I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.


Great.

But, what does he mean by "religion", "spirituality" and "ethics", exactly?

~~ Huifeng


Religion -- Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, etc.

Spirituality -- compassion, kindness, love, openess

Ethics -- valuing life
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 12160
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:04 am

That doesn't really come to terms with why the Dalai Lama wants to move beyond religion, or why there is so much controversy over religious ideas in the modern world, though.
Learn to do good, refrain from evil, purify the mind ~ this is the teaching of the Buddhas
User avatar
Wayfarer
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Will » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:17 am

jeeprs wrote:That doesn't really come to terms with why the Dalai Lama wants to move beyond religion, or why there is so much controversy over religious ideas in the modern world, though.


Having read one of his books on this theme some time back, it seems he found doctrine & views the main source of acrimony between & among religions. Therefore, a focus on common ethical values is the less contentious, more brotherly way to go. Even the motive for being compassionate, for example, is not examined or questioned. Whether one expresses compassion from wanting to please God or follow Jesus' example or because the Koran or Torah says so, is not relevant. It is also another source for argument - so never mind value motives.

Secondly, all paths have a beneficent Ideal or Source, whether transcendent, immanent, both or neither (in the case of secularists), therefore our personality is not the end all & be all. Again, never mind the nature of the Ideal or Source - too likely to foster quarrels.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1922
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby muni » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:52 am

The subtle clinging I am a buddhist, from the point of view of Buddhism is just clinging and cannot be freedom. As then there is an imagined line drawn between two concepts. We shouldn't reject religion or hold on "ours" which is grounded in delusion, a base for quarrel. As Buddhist we then just cling.

Christians, Muslim... brothers and sisters; we can see eachother at least as brothers and sisters interdependent from eachother.

Its all about daily etics; His Holiness says to imply mutual tolerance and respect for all faiths as well for those of no faith. Then mind is not so easely guided by destructive emotions but more in understanding, mindfulness.

Regarding Dzogchen is that no problem I suppose? Since without opinions or own ideas, nature is not dividing or clinging to labels and no need to delete them neither. No drawing of imagined lines is possible in nondual and all others cannot be "out" (and we in nature). A wise loves ALL without any separation or judgement. Since all is own nondual nature/Mind.

Dalai Lama has been pointed out his nature and understand clearly. From that action is naturally for the sake of all.
muni
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:12 am

Yes, I agree. I think it is clinging to ideas, or imposing views on others, or engaging in controversies to prove your own righteousness, that causes many of the problems in this area of life.
Learn to do good, refrain from evil, purify the mind ~ this is the teaching of the Buddhas
User avatar
Wayfarer
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: @DalaiLama

Postby alpha » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:53 am

jeeprs wrote:That doesn't really come to terms with why the Dalai Lama wants to move beyond religion, or why there is so much controversy over religious ideas in the modern world, though.



there is much controversy over religious ideas because people cling to their positions thinking that they are permanent and unchangeable since their suffering and inner turmoil.
Beyond this is nature.
That which is always the same.
AOM
alpha
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:05 pm
Location: kent


Return to Dzogchen

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

>