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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however. And no profundity.


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:33 pm 
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oldbob wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
I have no opinion of Dzogchen. I have none now. I think it unlikely that I will have an opinion of Dzogchen when my time comes to die.
There is no " My Dzogchen "..so the matter of whose Dzogchen is better than whose does not arise.


In 1963 I ran away from home, packing food and clothes in a guitar case and traveled by bus to the Newport Folk Festival where I snuck in back stage to meet Dlyan and Bayez.

Yes, how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky ?
Yes, how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry ?
Yes, how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died ?
The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

Judy Collins took off all her clothes and jumped into the swimming pool at the motel - everyone else followed after her - NAKED! :heart:


:smile: ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus

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- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however.


The fact that you disagree with a lot of us, without exactly explaining why, tells a different tale.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:17 pm 
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heart wrote:

:smile: ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus


Bob has had a very interesting life. He lived in India for many years.

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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Sign me up for advance copies of Bob's book, too.
But, no pictures, m'kay?

:thanks:

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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
heart wrote:

:smile: ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus


Bob has had a very interesting life. He lived in India for many years.

So does everyone know Bob except me? :lol:

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Pero wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
heart wrote:

:smile: ever considered writing your biography oldbob? I will read it,

/magnus


Bob has had a very interesting life. He lived in India for many years.

So does everyone know Bob except me? :lol:


I don't know Bob either... but apparently, I should.

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"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Pero wrote:
So does everyone know Bob except me? :lol:


I don't know him :smile:

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am
Posts: 2552
heart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however.


The fact that you disagree with a lot of us, without exactly explaining why, tells a different tale.

/magnus

On the contrary I dont disagree at all. I think that Buddhism is a perfectly proper way to approach Dzogchen.
I dont think it is the only way.
Nor do I think it essential.
But that is not my opinion .
Its what I have been taught by ChNNN. Its his opinion. My opinion is literally of no consequence.


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
heart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Oh I have plenty of views. I have no opinion of Dzogchen however.


The fact that you disagree with a lot of us, without exactly explaining why, tells a different tale.

/magnus

On the contrary I dont disagree at all. I think that Buddhism is a perfectly proper way to approach Dzogchen.
I dont think it is the only way.
Nor do I think it essential.
But that is not my opinion .
Its what I have been taught by ChNNN. Its his opinion. My opinion is literally of no consequence.


ChNNR is not posting here. If you want to clarify his opinion I think at least a substantial quote is necessary. Even then we might experience and understand his teaching in various ways. My root Guru is CNR but I try to avoid to drag him in to the discussions here because I can't speak for him. What I express here is my understanding of his teachings not is actual teachings. The argument "this is not my opinion it is my Gurus" is an incredibly odd way to discuss Dharma that happens quite often here in the Dzogchen subforum and not so much elsewhere.Why is this Simon?

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Posts: 2552
Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

:namaste:


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.


I don't think that this is what he means simon. he is simply expressing his pov, and contradicting yours. i don't get any sense
of him making it personal at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:36 am 
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Off Topic Posts Removed

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    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:08 am 
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Simon E. wrote:
Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

:namaste:


No, don't be ridiculous. I certainly hope you keep posting. I said exactly the same things to others and I even suggested they added it to the ToS, it is not personal.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:41 am 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am
Posts: 2552
heart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

:namaste:


No, don't be ridiculous. I certainly hope you keep posting. I said exactly the same things to others and I even suggested they added it to the ToS, it is not personal.

/magnus

Dont kid yourself, :lol: Of course its personal.
I will take full responsibility for my part in the response to my posts.
It was unwise and possibly premature by a few years.
It did not occur to me ( naively ) that by responding to Macolm's account of his journey with empathy that the reaction would be defensiveness,fear, and dismissiveness.
But actually that should have been predictable..after all you do not know me.
Although I suspect that Silent Bob is someone I knew while we were both students of CTR.
I received teachings from the 16th Karmapa.
I knew Ole before he was Lama Ole.
I also recieved teachings from Kalu Rinpoche and Chime Yongden Rinpoche... before becoming a student of Thrangu Rinpoche.
Whose retreats in Nepal I attended.
Between that time and becoming a student of ChNNN I had grown weary of western Buddhists.
I looked around and saw few of them walking the talk.
Most of the time many of them were notable for a lack of basic human kindness and decency.
They were filled with opinion and a need for attention.
Many of them, a much higher proportion than the general public, were depressed or suffered from clinical anxiety. ( I am a psychotherapist )
Their Buddhism may not in all cases have been the cause of their clinical condition, but it sure as hell wasn't helping it.
Instead it was making solid their neurosis and grasping after an identity.
In short ,when I read the post which led to Namdrol becoming Malcolm I was moved by it, and felt the need against my own better judgement to respond.
This was a mistake. This online community has formed over several years and has well established behaviors. The mores are embedded.
Unless one has the kind of clout that Macolm clearly has, any questioning of those mores are seen as a threat and the result is aggression.
Self appointed guardians of the Dharma take up their cudgels,
So as I said...a mistake.
Good will to all of good will.
Any contact I have in future with this forum will be of a " read only " kind.
:hi:

:namaste:


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
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Hello Simon,
You're free of your choice. I did appreciate your posts, with few of them you became a part of the gang. It does not mean I do always agree with what you say, but you're not off the road. Hope you'll continue to communicate with us ...

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
heart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Clearly Heart you would rather I did not post here.Your consistent tone makes that plain.
And I certainly have no emotional or psychological need to do so. So I will wish you well and concede to your wish.

:namaste:


No, don't be ridiculous. I certainly hope you keep posting. I said exactly the same things to others and I even suggested they added it to the ToS, it is not personal.

/magnus

Dont kid yourself, :lol: Of course its personal.
I will take full responsibility for my part in the response to my posts.
It was unwise and possibly premature by a few years.
It did not occur to me ( naively ) that by responding to Macolm's account of his journey with empathy that the reaction would be defensiveness,fear, and dismissiveness.
But actually that should have been predictable..after all you do not know me.
Although I suspect that Silent Bob is someone I knew while we were both students of CTR.
I received teachings from the 16th Karmapa.
I knew Ole before he was Lama Ole.
I also recieved teachings from Kalu Rinpoche and Chime Yongden Rinpoche... before becoming a student of Thrangu Rinpoche.
Whose retreats in Nepal I attended.
Between that time and becoming a student of ChNNN I had grown weary of western Buddhists.
I looked around and saw few of them walking the talk.
Most of the time many of them were notable for a lack of basic human kindness and decency.
They were filled with opinion and a need for attention.
Many of them, a much higher proportion than the general public, were depressed or suffered from clinical anxiety. ( I am a psychotherapist )
Their Buddhism may not in all cases have been the cause of their clinical condition, but it sure as hell wasn't helping it.
Instead it was making solid their neurosis and grasping after an identity.
In short ,when I read the post which led to Namdrol becoming Malcolm I was moved by it, and felt the need against my own better judgement to respond.
This was a mistake. This online community has formed over several years and has well established behaviors. The mores are embedded.
Unless one has the kind of clout that Macolm clearly has, any questioning of those mores are seen as a threat and the result is aggression.
Self appointed guardians of the Dharma take up their cudgels,
So as I said...a mistake.
Good will to all of good will.
Any contact I have in future with this forum will be of a " read only " kind.
:hi:

:namaste:

I share a rather similar experience, with different teachers though, and can perfectly understand what you're saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Posts: 5773
Simon E. wrote:
Between that time and becoming a student of ChNNN I had grown weary of western Buddhists.
I looked around and saw few of them walking the talk.
Most of the time many of them were notable for a lack of basic human kindness and decency.
They were filled with opinion and a need for attention.
Many of them, a much higher proportion than the general public, were depressed or suffered from clinical anxiety. ( I am a psychotherapist )
Their Buddhism may not in all cases have been the cause of their clinical condition, but it sure as hell wasn't helping it.
Instead it was making solid their neurosis and grasping after an identity.


I've seen this myself: in others, of course, but also in myself sometimes. I think we need to reflect on this with care.

Quote:
Any contact I have in future with this forum will be of a " read only " kind.


Do what you need to do, but sadly, the forum is the less for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:44 pm
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Quote:
Do what you need to do, but sadly, the forum is the less for it.


I totally agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Nakedness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Posts: 1999
Location: France
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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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