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Liberation without peace of the seven generations possible? - Dhamma Wheel

Liberation without peace of the seven generations possible?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Hanzze
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Liberation without peace of the seven generations possible?

Postby Hanzze » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:52 am

Dear friends,

I just came back from a family celebration in the neighborhood. In south east Asian countries it is traditional to make celebrations for passed away family members, there are special times like ten days after, 3 years after, I don't know exactly.

Maybe somebody is able to explain why it is so important to do that and which state of mind one should train, while doing it.

A nice tradition I had observed while the people had offered food to the monks. One after the other is giving rice into the bowls of the monks. There have been an four monks and there was a fifth bowl, where the people used to put the rest of there rice with there hands in it.
I was really happy to see that fifth bowl but like always I needed to ask, for the reason of this bowl.

Maybe somebody is able to explain the the symbolic meaning oft this additional bowl.

_/\_
with loving kindness

Edit: please note that there are two "Subjects" with could be confusing
Last edited by Hanzze on Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Strive
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Strive » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:24 pm

Well from what I know in the pali canon about the ancestors that passed on is that we can transfer merit to them if they are in the hungry ghost realm. It is hard for them to earn merit. Buddha said that they are everywhere, on every street. So maybe that extra bowl is an offering and transfer in merit to them because Buddha said that it is hard to find anyone in the world that hasn't been a mother, father, brother or son to us.
:anjali:
Last edited by Strive on Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Faith is here a man's best treasure;
Dhamma practised well brings happiness;
Truth is really the sweetest of tastes;
One living by wisdom they say lives best."--Bhikkhu Bodhi's Samyutta Nikaya, Sagathavagga verse 853

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Viscid
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Viscid » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:10 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Hanzze
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Hanzze » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:36 am

Dear Viscid,

the none Buddhist way is sometimes a easier key. Seven generations are also in middle Europe relevant. Didn't find good context now.

Dear Strive,

many celebrations for ancestors are made of that reason, that they could be hungry ghost. But yes, they are also the invited in that case. I was happy one answered while I asked. That is for the animals.
A clear sign while overing or honoring monks to do not forget all other beings, I didn't saw very often. But those are just my interpretations.

----
Oh as I see, it is also not forgotten in America:

"We cannot simply think of our survival; each new generation is responsible to ensure the survival of the seventh generation. The prophecy given to us, tells us that what we do today will affect the seventh generation and because of this we must bear in mind our responsibility to them today and always."
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Hanzze » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:10 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

pegembara
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby pegembara » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:59 am

Tirokudda Kanda

Outside the walls they stand,
& at crossroads.
At door posts they stand,
returning to their old homes.
But when a meal with plentiful food & drink is served,
no one remembers them:
Such is the kamma of living beings.

Thus those who feel sympathy for their dead relatives
give timely donations of proper food & drink
— exquisite, clean —
[thinking:] "May this be for our relatives.
May our relatives be happy!"

And those who have gathered there,
the assembled shades of the relatives,
with appreciation give their blessing
for the plentiful food & drink:
"May our relatives live long
because of whom we have gained [this gift].
We have been honored,
and the donors are not without reward!"

For there [in their realm] there's
no farming,
no herding of cattle,
no commerce,
no trading with money.
They live on what is given here,
hungry shades
whose time here is done.

As water raining on a hill
flows down to the valley,
even so does what is given here
benefit the dead.
As rivers full of water
fill the ocean full,
even so does what is given here
benefit the dead.

"He gave to me, she acted on my behalf,
they were my relatives, companions, friends":
Offerings should be given for the dead
when one reflects thus
on things done in the past.
For no weeping,
no sorrowing
no other lamentation
benefits the dead
whose relatives persist in that way.
But when this offering is given, well-placed in the Sangha,
it works for their long-term benefit
and they profit immediately.

In this way
the proper duty to relatives has been shown,
great honor has been done to the dead,
and monks have been given strength:

The merit you've acquired
isn't small.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Hanzze
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Hanzze » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:25 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Hanzze » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:32 am

yep, prah google did help :-)



but still not the deep meaning, why seven.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

kirana
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby kirana » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:37 pm


kirana
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby kirana » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:42 pm


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Hanzze
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liberation without peace of the seven generations possible?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:29 am

Dear friends,

coming form the topic I thought it is maybe better to make a new tread, as from my view, there is less possibility to walk on in Praxis without making peace and accept the seven generations fully. In old cultures and special in Asia this topic is not that much taught, as it is normally clear. As the modern man has mostly lost his seven generations, I thought it would be good to work the reasons out together as my recourses are not real shareable.

Maybe it is possible to explain it a little for a karmic view and also from a scientific view as DNA.

In Asia, people usually believe that people dying mostly reincarnate as family members, so the grand, grand... father becomes his own grandchild. The direct effect of you karma on your self. Without accepting all aspects of your self - without taking all members of your family (with there faults, misfortune) into your heart and accept them totally a release from the circle of live is not possible.

In western I guess, often the practice is followed and done out of the motivation to release such subtle family suffering, which from my view will not have any benefit at all. (Maybe the offered family member as a monk in Christianity is a hint).

As you are here very well knowing in the suttras and science, maybe it is possible to work those things out and make the important need as the first step for liberation touchable for many joining the path. I guess western need a logical entrance from the beginning.

For a start maybe this sutta:
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Hanzze » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:40 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Hanzze » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:50 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

ajahndoe
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Re: liberation without peace of the seven generations possible?

Postby ajahndoe » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:20 am

The first step to liberation is to accept death without return. There is no abiding self to begin with, much less that is reborn or owns the past or future. These views are bound up in Samsara. Let go.

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Hanzze
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Re: liberation without peace of the seven generations possible?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:43 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Location: Cambodia

Re: liberation without peace of the seven generations possible?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:32 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Hanzze
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Re: liberation without peace of the seven generations possible?

Postby Hanzze » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:52 pm

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Annapurna
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Annapurna » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:49 pm

I think the safest source for an explanation are the people who are doing the ritual... :anjali:
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Hanzze
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Hanzze » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:28 pm

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Annapurna
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Re: Worship the ancestors and the kind of giving to monks

Postby Annapurna » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:21 pm

Ah, I see, Hanzze.

Thanks. You were tactful, as it should be. Can you ask him "under 4 eyes"?
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/


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