Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby plwk » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:28 am

Yes, I have had the experience a couple of times of being digitally beheaded, and being banished to the farthest reaches of the Internet.

On another note, see how 'cruel' some Zennists are? (Assuming there are some Zennists who 'behead' you...)
At least when the Vaj gang does beheading, they do a phowa for ya to end up in a Pure Land ... :tongue: :lol:

...while someone like me is a small shadow to these Great Personages

:mrgreen: Never EVER underestimate these 'four things'.... Dahara Sutta
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:36 pm

I never saw a wild thing
sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.

~ D.H. Lawrence
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:20 pm

jundo cohen wrote:Hi Guys,

Matylda just posted this comment over on the Shikantaza thread and, while someone like me is a small shadow to these Great Personages ... I can sure relate to their experiences with conservative establishments:

Matylda wrote: ... Before Kamakura era Buddhism was only for privileged in Japan. For this reason Honen and to bigger extant Shinran provoked outspoken hatred from the establishment. Some of the Honen disciples were beheaded and Shinran narrowly escaped this fate. Zen was the another part of bitter resentment from the establishment. Being highly indifferent to the old religious and political establishment, was a threat to it. Dogen finally had to run away from Uji, were he had founded Koshoji, and the description of the event resounds almost the same adventure like HH Dalai Lama escaping Chinese invasion. This swift turnabout in the religious history was almost like a revolution in Japanese buddhism.

viewtopic.php?p=109013#p109013


Yes, I have had the experience a couple of times of being digitally beheaded, and being banished to the farthest reaches of the Internet.

Here is the closest appropriate smile I could find ... a rolling head ... :rolling:

Gassho, Jundo
Yes, well, except that we do not have a solidified concrete Japanese Buddhist hierarchy in the west so your rebellion is pretty pointless. You are just tilting at windmills basically and taking advantage of the shock value of the statements to draw more rebels without a cause to your causeless cause! ;)
:namaste:
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby jundo cohen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:37 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
]Yes, well, except that we do not have a solidified concrete Japanese Buddhist hierarchy in the west so your rebellion is pretty pointless. You are just tilting at windmills basically and taking advantage of the shock value of the statements to draw more rebels without a cause to your causeless cause! ;)
:namaste:


Hi Greg,

I truly believe that I am simply trying to provide a doorway into Buddhism for some who cannot relate to what is (to their eyes, and that is all, and not meant to be so in everyone's eyes) possible superstition, magic&incantation, baseless historical myth ... yet who can relate to and benefit from the remaining core Teachings nonetheless. They appreciate a more secular, historically verifiable, "the true miracle is in the most ordinary" vision of Buddhism, and Zen Buddhist Practice in particular. Such perspectives are not intended to be more than a viewpoint, or to deny anyone else's beliefs as inferior, for one man's "myth and made up story" is another man's sacred and cherished belief.

There may be no "concrete hierarchy" but, as the reaction of some here shows, there are certainly those who would wish to deny a voicing to such perspectives, or think it somehow a defaming of the Buddha or the like.

There is room in Buddhism ... in this boundless universe ... for all our perspectives and practices.

Gassho, Jundo
Last edited by jundo cohen on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:45 pm

What I am saying that there is no real value in proclaiming the Buddha is dead, when in the west, he was never really alive. If there is no establishment you can't really be anti-establishment. Actually, when the establishment is scientific materialism, then your statements are actually conservative and not at all radical. Not that you are really saying anything radical anyway, but...
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:08 pm

jundo cohen wrote:I truly believe that I am simply trying to provide a doorway into Buddhism for some who cannot relate to what is (to their eyes, and that is all, and not meant to be so in everyone's eyes) possible superstition, magic&incantation, baseless historical myth ... yet who can relate to and benefit from the remaining core Teachings nonetheless. They appreciate a more secular, historically verifiable, "the true miracle is in the most ordinary" vision of Buddhism, and Zen Buddhist Practice in particular.

In a bookstore the secular and historically verifiable spiritual section is called "self-help." I suggest stationing recruiting agents there to hand out cards containing the info in your signature line.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby jundo cohen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:45 pm

Huseng wrote:
Your self-aggrandizement is repulsive. You write about your supposed accomplishments with such a seemingly light tone.

"...what someone like me presents..."

Such arrogance. You present people your own watered down orientalist fantasy Zen and claim it to be a "Buddhist Path". You are catering to people who are products of present western society and thus easily lured in by people proclaiming some oriental-like spirituality sanitized of all the disagreeable religious elements. That is not Buddhadharma.

You would proclaim yourself as an equal teacher to countless genuine masters in this world, yet you do not even have basic faith in the Triple Gem, all the while you slander the Buddha and so quickly dodge criticism with contrived Zen wit that is quite fashionable amongst English speaking internet Zen gurus.

You are not teaching people any Buddhist Path. What you are teaching is adharma. It is false dharma cloaked in Buddhist garb. It is misleading. It is poisonous. Your hubris and past misdeeds are disgusting.


Congratulations, Huseng, on your becoming Global Moderator today! :namaste:

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:08 pm

Jundo,

As one of your students said in support of you over this issue, it would be lying to not tell the truth. :anjali:
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:18 pm

I get the strong impression that Mr Cohen ( who I do not know ) might be picking up someone elses bill. He perhaps represents a safer target.
But what do I know.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Not picking it up is obviously not an option.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby jundo cohen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:38 pm

Simon E. wrote:I get the strong impression that Mr Cohen ( who I do not know ) might be picking up someone elses bill. He perhaps represents a safer target.
But what do I know.


Hi Simon,

I apologize, but i have read this several times and do not understand what "pick up someone's bill" means.

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:50 pm

It's a metaphor, Jundo. Paying a bill is paying for some sort of debt for goods or services rendered. Of course it can be more abstract than that, like a 'debt to society' for some offense to society, and this is essentially how Simon's metaphor is meant, I believe, that you are paying for someone else's offense. This is not unlike how Jesus is said to have died for the sins of others, so you are in good company, as martyrdom goes.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Simon E. » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:51 pm

I am suggesting sir that much of the negativity directed at you for your " blasphemy " is actually displaced from its real target because on this forum you are seen as a softer option.. for historical reasons.

When folk start shitting their pants with indignation I find it attracts my attention.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:06 pm

Anders wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
jundo cohen wrote:
Any questions? One can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, I suppose.

Gassho, Jundo


...stating that face-to-face encounters are “the basis for evaluating a student’s readiness for ordination and eventually membership in the SZBA.” By “face-to-face,” the SZBA board means “in the same physical room.


This statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of how the material aggregates is defined.

M


As a point of curiosity - how are we to understand how the material aggregates are defined, for the purpose of evaluating a student’s readiness, sub-context of online interaction and all that?


The material aggregates include all five physical sense organs and sense objects.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Anders » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:10 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Anders wrote:
Malcolm wrote:This statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of how the material aggregates is defined.
M


As a point of curiosity - how are we to understand how the material aggregates are defined, for the purpose of evaluating a student’s readiness, sub-context of online interaction and all that?


The material aggregates include all five physical sense organs and sense objects.


So basically no difference between sensing each other 'face to face' and sensing each other through the online medium, if I understand you correctly?
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:12 pm

Anders wrote:
So basically no difference between sensing each other 'face to face' and sensing each other through the online medium, if I understand you correctly?


For the purposes of communication, nope. If smell or touch is involved, as in some empowerments, there is an issue -- but for transmitting refuge, bodhisattva vows, teachings, etc., there is no problem.
Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:21 pm

Perhaps the Soto Zen Buddhist Association chooses to not recognize Jundo's priests for other reasons and this just provides a loophole to achieve their end.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:28 pm

But Jundo Cohen is an affiliated teacher with the organisation. :shrug: http://szba.org/teachers/jundo-cohen/
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:33 pm

You know how politics are. Step on the wrong toes and...
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:39 pm

shel wrote:You know how politics are. Step on the wrong toes and...
What are you talking about? There is no reference on the official site decrying Jundo Cohen or stating that his priests are not recognised. One would believe that if the association had a problem with Mr. Cohen then they would, at the very least, have pulled his name and biography and link to his electronic sangha off their site. You still havene't answered the question: what is your gripe with Mr. Cohen? Why this personal crusade against him? I mean there are all manner of whackos out there preending to have the qualifications to teach at $2000 a session, why focus on Mr. Cohen?
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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