oldbob wrote:What will you tell Yama when he sends down his hook for you: that you had permission to teach Dzogchen, or that you taught Dzogchen, or that you are a Tulku, or that you translated the Dzogchen Tantras, or that you had a thousand lovers, or that you wrote beautiful poems, or that you danced a beautiful dance?
I don't think he will listen.
Nakedness
Re: Nakedness
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
Re: Nakedness
Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen...words about words about words are still ...words. And time is still a- wasting even when we discus the fact.Anders wrote:oldbob wrote:What will you tell Yama when he sends down his hook for you: that you had permission to teach Dzogchen, or that you taught Dzogchen, or that you are a Tulku, or that you translated the Dzogchen Tantras, or that you had a thousand lovers, or that you wrote beautiful poems, or that you danced a beautiful dance?
I don't think he will listen.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Nakedness
May be this topic should have been posted in the personal experience part of the forum?
The Blessed One said:
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
Re: Nakedness
Hi Simon,Simon E. wrote:Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen...words about words about words are still ...words. And time is still a- wasting even when we discus the fact.Anders wrote:oldbob wrote:What will you tell Yama when he sends down his hook for you: that you had permission to teach Dzogchen, or that you taught Dzogchen, or that you are a Tulku, or that you translated the Dzogchen Tantras, or that you had a thousand lovers, or that you wrote beautiful poems, or that you danced a beautiful dance?
I don't think he will listen.
Does it really require translation? It seems to me a waste of energy, though a frequent habit amongst practitioners, to want to live life through the abstractions of a tenet system. Personally, I appreciate Buddhism for its immediacy and direct pointing towards aspects of life that are readily observable and require little abstraction but on the contrary are truths that demand abandoning our tendency to alienate ourselves from the immediacy of the experience of life.
[thus I have heard] "What is the Noble Truth of Suffering? Birth is suffering, ageing is suffering, sickness is suffering, dissociation from the loved is suffering, not to get what one wants is suffering". That's straight talk. Anyone can recognise the self-evident truth of such words. If someone asked me "Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Buddhism" I'd have to tell him to go live a little and get familiar with it. These words, these symbols, don't point to other symbols in a framework of symbolic and abstract representation. They simply point to a self-evident facet of life.
Death is unavoidable. And contemplating this has its spiritual upsides (so sayeth the Buddha, at any rate). We don't have a lot of time in this world. A truck could run you over tomorrow. If you knew this were to happen, how would you spend your remaining hours in this world? Are there things left undone or unsaid for you? Once we get really honest about death, the question starts sneaking in: Do we really dare take the chance that we won't get run down by a bus tomorrow? Is life worth living as if we have time to waste? Also, surprising facets come to the fore as one becomes more intimate with this topic - death seems less frightening. The shadow of death, rather than looming menacingly on the edge of consciousness, becomes a friend standing in the open that reminds us to live life more fully, as we work ourselves towards living quite literally as if every day were our last. The fleeting nature of the things in our lives begin to become more apparent. The things we cherish - none of them can be taken with us when we die. They are stuff for loan. Why treat them as if they were for keeps?
But all this is just more abstraction, since this is my experience with this topic and not yours. Truth be told, since you did ask "Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen" I have to tell you - such an answer is not very meaningful. Who cares for the meaning of 'death' within the abstracted formulations of 'Dzogchen'? Seeking such answers is only good for inoculating ourselves from the unnerving truths it may reveal about our own existence. How can such a thing have spiritual impact? Death is a very immediate affair. It has immediate meaning for all people. This is why the Buddha liked talking about it. It's a very universal thing. The question I consider worth asking is not "what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen" but rather "What does death mean to Simon E."
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
Re: Nakedness
I have no idea.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Nakedness
In such a case, I'd suggest the pertinent issue is less so looking for meaningful answers as it is finding the meaningful questions.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
- underthetree
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:44 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Nakedness
Conceptual thought is clothing. Conceptualization is simply the draping of emptiness so that it becomes form. It isn't about 'us' being naked. Everything is naked. Everything is clothed.
Or so it seems to me.
Or so it seems to me.
Re: Nakedness
Absolutely Not.Anders wrote:In such a case, I'd suggest the pertinent issue is less so looking for meaningful answers as it is finding the meaningful questions.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
- retrofuturist
- Former staff member
- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:54 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Nakedness
Comedy gold.David N. Snyder wrote:Plants are sentient, now nakedness is good; are you becoming a Jain?
Nice one, David.
Metta,
Paul.
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.
Re: Nakedness
Off Topic posts removed
- How foolish you are,
grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
- Vasubandhu
Re: Nakedness
or a rastafariretrofuturist wrote:Comedy gold.David N. Snyder wrote:Plants are sentient, now nakedness is good; are you becoming a Jain?
Nice one, David.
Metta,
Paul.
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Re: Nakedness
He is saying that your opinions about Dzogchen doesn't matter at all when you are about to die, which might be any moment, only your own capacity to practice. So discussions that is a bit to much "my Dzogchen is better than your Dzogchen" is not very helpful at all. Not for you, not for me, not for anyone.Simon E. wrote: Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen...words about words about words are still ...words. And time is still a- wasting even when we discus the fact.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Nakedness
I agree entirely.heart wrote:He is saying that your opinions about Dzogchen doesn't matter at all when you are about to die, which might be any moment, only your own capacity to practice. So discussions that is a bit to much "my Dzogchen is better than your Dzogchen" is not very helpful at all. Not for you, not for me, not for anyone.Simon E. wrote: Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen...words about words about words are still ...words. And time is still a- wasting even when we discus the fact.
/magnus
Opinions indeed do not matter at all. Mine, his, or yours about his or mine.
If anyone read what I said as a claim to a better Dzogchen, then they brought that meaning with them and shoveled it on.
"With trembling hand I aimed my hand at the phony dogs who teach,
Fearing not to become my own enemy
In the instant that I preach
Lies, that life was black and white
So clear, no doubt somehow.
Ah but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now "
My Back Pages...Bob Dylan.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Nakedness
Simon E. wrote:I agree entirely.heart wrote:He is saying that your opinions about Dzogchen doesn't matter at all when you are about to die, which might be any moment, only your own capacity to practice. So discussions that is a bit to much "my Dzogchen is better than your Dzogchen" is not very helpful at all. Not for you, not for me, not for anyone.Simon E. wrote: Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen...words about words about words are still ...words. And time is still a- wasting even when we discus the fact.
/magnus
Opinions indeed do not matter at all. Mine, his, or yours about his or mine.
If anyone read what I said as a claim to a better Dzogchen, then they brought that meaning with them and shoveled it on.
"With trembling hand I aimed my hand at the phony dogs who teach,
Fearing not to become my own enemy
In the instant that I preach
Lies, that life was black and white
So clear, no doubt somehow.
Ah but I was so much older then
I'm younger than that now "
My Back Pages...Bob Dylan.
If your going to quote Dylan....at least try and get it right!
In a soldier’s stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not that I’d become my enemy
In the instant that I preach
My pathway led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow
Ah, but I was so much older then
I’m younger than that now
s.
Re: Nakedness
Thank you for the correction.
I shouldnt try to do things from memory.
The salient point being
" fearing not that I'd become my own enemy
in the instant that I preach ".
I have absolutely no opinion about death or Dzogchen.
If I did have I would disassociate myself from those opinions.
I shouldnt try to do things from memory.
The salient point being
" fearing not that I'd become my own enemy
in the instant that I preach ".
I have absolutely no opinion about death or Dzogchen.
If I did have I would disassociate myself from those opinions.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Nakedness
heart wrote:He is saying that your opinions about Dzogchen doesn't matter at all when you are about to die, which might be any moment, only your own capacity to practice. So discussions that is a bit to much "my Dzogchen is better than your Dzogchen" is not very helpful at all. Not for you, not for me, not for anyone.Simon E. wrote: Now tell us what it actually means in terms of Dzogchen...words about words about words are still ...words. And time is still a- wasting even when we discus the fact.
/magnus
No Dzogchen here!
Re: Nakedness
I have no opinion of Dzogchen. I have none now. I think it unlikely that I will have an opinion of Dzogchen when my time comes to die.
There is no " My Dzogchen "..so the matter of whose Dzogchen is better than whose does not arise.
There is no " My Dzogchen "..so the matter of whose Dzogchen is better than whose does not arise.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Nakedness
In 1963 I ran away from home, packing food and clothes in a guitar case and traveled by bus to the Newport Folk Festival where I snuck in back stage to meet Dlyan and Bayez.Simon E. wrote:I have no opinion of Dzogchen. I have none now. I think it unlikely that I will have an opinion of Dzogchen when my time comes to die.
There is no " My Dzogchen "..so the matter of whose Dzogchen is better than whose does not arise.
Yes, how many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky ?
Yes, how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry ?
Yes, how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died ?
The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
Judy Collins took off all her clothes and jumped into the swimming pool at the motel - everyone else followed after her - NAKED!
Re: Nakedness
I see.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Nakedness
This sort of non-opinion/view sounds more like taking no-view as a position, tbh. Actual freedom from views strikes me as more organic and capable of taking in views and opinions and them kissing them on their merry way when done with them.Simon E. wrote:I have no opinion of Dzogchen. I have none now. I think it unlikely that I will have an opinion of Dzogchen when my time comes to die.
There is no " My Dzogchen "..so the matter of whose Dzogchen is better than whose does not arise.
Of course, I don't know your mind. You could have just more profound practise than what I can tell from a computer screen. But that's how it comes across anyway.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra