Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby asunthatneversets » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:05 am

Wesley1982 wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:And what would constitute a legitimate guru suggestion from jesus? Perhaps he's already showing you.



If that is true - then I could turn the home office into a place of devotion to studies and ritual meditation.


But of course. Lots of people do. Let wherever you are and wherever you go be your place of devotion to studies and ritual meditation. For example, one of the goals of dzogchen is to get to the point where you can effortlessly remain in the natural state at all times, even during sleep.
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:23 am

Wesley1982 wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
So here do you have a broad offer of Dzogchen Traditions and you could make an investigation about all of them, could follow all of them or take out one special Dzogchen Master which whom you have a good connection. That could be then your Guru.

But when i may ask what are you at the moment practising?


Mutsog Marro
KY


-Medicine Buddha Dharma- and a very broad,general introduction to the basics of Buddhism. Probably an orthodox Tibetan tradition.




Tashi delek,

Thanks for your post.

IMO is your practice of Sangye Menla / Medicine Buddha a very good practice for you. :applause:

You have a lot of trust / confidence with your chosen divinity / Yidam and that is very good! I would say go on with your Medicine Buddha practice.
If you are dying, the Medicine Buddha will sent 3 Bodhisattvas to your place of dying and you will be reborn in his pure realm, where you can obtain Buddhahood after a certain time. (450 years?).

So for me it sounds very great that you are doing Menla practice and can built up a good relationship with Menla Buddha.

I did do that practice for a very long time and still do it in case if there is somebody very ill. So i am busy with Traditional Accupuncture and Shaitsu Massage, Tui na Massage and Chinese herbs. Menla is for me also very important because it is of great help in curing others nevertheless i am mainly Dzogchenpa. But doing Menla practice, will not mean, one does need, must, to become a Dzogchenpa. :D

All in all keep going on with Menla practice and it is NOT nescessary for you to become a Dzogchenpa, only if YOU do insist on it........ ;). Others easy could pull you over THEIR line and would advice you to come into THEIR club, but don' t forget it are others suggestions seen in THEIR way of karma.

What is medicine for someone could be poison for anotherone and vice versa.

You know why you are doing Menla practice, that is ok, but don' t know what Dzogchen is. Take it easy and get used to Dzogchen little by little, make small steps. These small steps do include Preliminary Practices to get used to Dzogchen. That is the way to get in touch with Dzogchen and for you the safest way. Some others can go like rockets because they have that ability, seen over THEIR karma. But there are also others who have NOT those abilities so they MUST go slower........ So never drive a Ferrari, if you always are used to drive on a bicycle. That will mean sure you can drive Ferrari after some time of building up some experiences.

Don' t be in a hurry, be relaxed and don' t throw your old shoes away before you can pay a new pair of shoes. You still can walk on your old shoes, so keep on walking and when they are "old" than think in time, about the right pair of shoes which COULD fit. And again here also it does not mean to become a Dzogchenpa. It is not a fashion to become a Dzogchenpa.


Mutsog Marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Wesley1982 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:17 pm

a) How do you help overcome what may seem strange,foreign,or unfamiliar to you?..
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby asunthatneversets » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:18 pm

Wesley1982 wrote:a) How do you help overcome what may seem strange,foreign,or unfamiliar to you?..


How else? Learn about it so it becomes familiar to you.
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Wesley1982 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:08 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:You have a lot of trust / confidence with your chosen divinity / Yidam and that is very good! I would say go on with your Medicine Buddha practice.
If you are dying, the Medicine Buddha will sent 3 Bodhisattvas to your place of dying and you will be reborn in his pure realm, where you can obtain Buddhahood after a certain time. (450 years?).

So for me it sounds very great that you are doing Menla practice and can built up a good relationship with Menla Buddha.

I did do that practice for a very long time and still do it in case if there is somebody very ill. So i am busy with Traditional Accupuncture and Shaitsu Massage, Tui na Massage and Chinese herbs. Menla is for me also very important because it is of great help in curing others nevertheless i am mainly Dzogchenpa. But doing Menla practice, will not mean, one does need, must, to become a Dzogchenpa. :D


I'm much more familiar with Christian practice than being a traditional Dzogchen follower.

(I was going to donate some money to the Dzogchen community but was seen as being naive or gullible about it) -

[alot like the salesman trying to sell something - and someone has to buy]
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby asunthatneversets » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:49 am

You don't need to donate anything. If you want to that's great but spending money isn't a requirement. The community isn't there to get money out of people. You don't even necessarily have to be a member of the community, it's just nice because it has it's perks with access to archived teachings and you can also have access to restricted webcasts. But it's not necessary, I'm not a member of the community... But I have friends nearby who are so I have the option to go to their spots to catch closed teachings. If I didn't have that option I'd probably become a member, but I choose to give back by purchasing rinpoche's books from my local ling. Either way just know that spending money isn't a requirement and if you stumble into a community where they're trying to charge you money for every little thing and for teachings tell them to f*ck off. There's a lot of scammers out there who prey on people's devotion to the dharma, and they're the lowest of the low.

Even in circumstances where it seems unavoidable like attending a retreat in person, retreats can cost money. But most reasonable teachers will have a sliding scale for their retreats, if you can't afford it then they'll ask what you're comfortable spending, or they'll simply ask for a donation of whatever size you feel is appropriate for your circumstances. There's also the option of volunteering to help set up or clean up and that usually gets you in for free. I'll say this: if a community or teacher turns you away because you can't pay the full amount then they don't have your best interest in mind and they're looking out for their pockets. A true teacher will work with your financial circumstances, because bottom line... They want you to become realized so you can benefit beings.
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby asunthatneversets » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:49 am

Wesley1982 wrote:
I'm much more familiar with Christian practice than being a traditional Dzogchen follower.


You can also continue your Christian practices and even integrate them with dzogchen practice. There's no such thing as a "traditional dzogchen follower" you don't adopt a belief system or convert to a new tradition. And actually if you end up with something new that you didn't have prior to starting dzogchen practice (besides a new and profound knowledge of your own nature and an overall sense of well-being) then you're doing it wrong. Dzogchen simply points to something you've always been (and always had) which was only seemingly obscured. In dzogchen you dis-cover your innate completeness. You re-member your true nature. You re-collect your primordial perfection. Jesus can come along for the ride, he probably discovered the same thing.

Tiny baby infant Jesus in his golden fleece diapers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A0-u85aAYg
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Wesley1982 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:51 am

a) Is the Tibetan dzogchen community a nomadic & travelling group?..
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Wesley1982 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:00 am

asunthatneversets wrote:You can also continue your Christian practices and even integrate them with dzogchen practice. There's no such thing as a "traditional dzogchen follower" you don't adopt a belief system or convert to a new tradition. And actually if you end up with something new that you didn't have prior to starting dzogchen practice (besides a new and profound knowledge of your own nature and an overall sense of well-being) then you're doing it wrong. Dzogchen simply points to something you've always been (and always had) which was only seemingly obscured. In dzogchen you dis-cover your innate completeness. You re-member your true nature. You re-collect your primordial perfection. Jesus can come along for the ride, he probably discovered the same thing.


I understand this paragraph.
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby asunthatneversets » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:49 am

Wesley1982 wrote:a) Is the Tibetan dzogchen community a nomadic & travelling group?..


The lineages/traditions which kept the dzogchen teaching alive have been both nomadic and institutional. The original religion of tibet is Bön which yes was practiced by nomadic tribesmen (and non-nomadic I'm sure). Bön predates buddhism by 1,500 years, I believe? It was founded by Tonpa Shenrab. Bönpo dzogchen is essentially the same as buddhist dzogchen (and vice versa).

Dzogchen has also been passed down in the buddhist tradition, mainly in the Nyingma school of Tibetan buddhism. I believe Vimalimitra received the dzogchen teachings from Shri Singha(student of Mañjuśrīmitra) and brought them to Tibet, where they were joined with Padmasambhava's and Vairocana's teachings to create the Nyingma school (consisting of Vimalimitra's Vima Nyingtig, Padmasambhava's Khandro Nyingtig and Vairocana's Vairo Nyingtig).

Dzogchen was also practiced by wandering yogi's who belonged to neither the Bön tradition nor Buddhist tradition and the Dzogchen teaching itself is said to have originated in the kingdom of Oḍḍiyāna (which is generally considered to be close to what is present day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan).

(I'm not scholar so if I'm off someone please correct me!)
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby tomamundsen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:43 am

Wesley1982 wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:And what would constitute a legitimate guru suggestion from jesus? Perhaps he's already showing you.



If that is true - then I could turn the home office into a place of devotion to studies and ritual meditation.

Of course. I have learned from my lama and reading in books that we should visualize our surroundings as a pure land, because that is actually the truth.
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:19 am

asunthatneversets wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:a) Is the Tibetan dzogchen community a nomadic & travelling group?..


The lineages/traditions which kept the dzogchen teaching alive have been both nomadic and institutional. The original religion of tibet is Bön which yes was practiced by nomadic tribesmen (and non-nomadic I'm sure). Bön predates buddhism by 1,500 years, I believe? It was founded by Tonpa Shenrab. Bönpo dzogchen is essentially the same as buddhist dzogchen (and vice versa).

Bon was practised in Zhang Zhung kingdoms which were situated near Oddhiyana / Urgyen. Why do you think that Buddhist Dzogchen is the same as Bon Dzogchen?

Dzogchen has also been passed down in the buddhist tradition, mainly in the Nyingma school of Tibetan buddhism. I believe Vimalimitra received the dzogchen teachings from Shri Singha(student of Mañjuśrīmitra) and brought them to Tibet, where they were joined with Padmasambhava's and Vairocana's teachings to create the Nyingma school (consisting of Vimalimitra's Vima Nyingtig, Padmasambhava's Khandro Nyingtig and Vairocana's Vairo Nyingtig).

Dzogchen was also practiced by wandering yogi's who belonged to neither the Bön tradition nor Buddhist tradition and the Dzogchen teaching itself is said to have originated in the kingdom of Oḍḍiyāna (which is generally considered to be close to what is present day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan).

To what tradition did those wandering Yogis belong or from whom did they got their Teachings?
I cannot agree with your statement that Dzogchen did originate in Oddhiyana / Urgyen. Garab Dorje would have lived about 58. Zhang Zhung is much older, so their Dzogchen would be older than that from Urgyen.

(I'm not scholar so if I'm off someone please correct me!)
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby kalden yungdrung » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:26 am

Wesley1982 wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:You can also continue your Christian practices and even integrate them with dzogchen practice.
That does count for a realised Dzogchenpa and not for a beginner. How can a beginner extract the essence out of Christianity and compare that to Dzogchen? I guess that is nearly impossible.

Jesus can come along for the ride, he probably discovered the same thing.
I cannot see so quick, that there is a Dzogchenpa hanging on a cross for the sins of others.

Mutsog marro
KY




I understand this paragraph.
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Sönam » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:11 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:You can also continue your Christian practices and even integrate them with dzogchen practice.
That does count for a realised Dzogchenpa and not for a beginner. How can a beginner extract the essence out of Christianity and compare that to Dzogchen? I guess that is nearly impossible.


What is to be compared? A beginner can always continue his practice, nothing to leave behind ... until he becomes a realized Dzogchenpa and does not needs any particular practices anymore (except maybe Guru Yoga ...).

Jesus can come along for the ride, he probably discovered the same thing.
I cannot see so quick, that there is a Dzogchenpa hanging on a cross for the sins of others.

Mutsog marro
KY



maybe it'll happen once :twothumbsup:

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby asunthatneversets » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:32 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:a) Is the Tibetan dzogchen community a nomadic & travelling group?..


The lineages/traditions which kept the dzogchen teaching alive have been both nomadic and institutional. The original religion of tibet is Bön which yes was practiced by nomadic tribesmen (and non-nomadic I'm sure). Bön predates buddhism by 1,500 years, I believe? It was founded by Tonpa Shenrab. Bönpo dzogchen is essentially the same as buddhist dzogchen (and vice versa).

Bon was practised in Zhang Zhung kingdoms which were situated near Oddhiyana / Urgyen. Why do you think that Buddhist Dzogchen is the same as Bon Dzogchen?

Dzogchen has also been passed down in the buddhist tradition, mainly in the Nyingma school of Tibetan buddhism. I believe Vimalimitra received the dzogchen teachings from Shri Singha(student of Mañjuśrīmitra) and brought them to Tibet, where they were joined with Padmasambhava's and Vairocana's teachings to create the Nyingma school (consisting of Vimalimitra's Vima Nyingtig, Padmasambhava's Khandro Nyingtig and Vairocana's Vairo Nyingtig).

Dzogchen was also practiced by wandering yogi's who belonged to neither the Bön tradition nor Buddhist tradition and the Dzogchen teaching itself is said to have originated in the kingdom of Oḍḍiyāna (which is generally considered to be close to what is present day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan).

To what tradition did those wandering Yogis belong or from whom did they got their Teachings?
I cannot agree with your statement that Dzogchen did originate in Oddhiyana / Urgyen. Garab Dorje would have lived about 58. Zhang Zhung is much older, so their Dzogchen would be older than that from Urgyen.

(I'm not scholar so if I'm off someone please correct me!)


:smile:
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:25 pm

Should I do the Medicine Buddha practice based off a book by Rinpoche or not?..
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:50 pm

The only ones I know of explained by Dzogchen Teachers, are the two books I'd mentioned:


Lhug-Pa wrote:And two great Dzogchen Teachers have even written books about the Medicine Buddha, Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche and H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche.

http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Sadhana_of_ ... /18052.htm

http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Medicine_Bu ... /12745.htm

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche often gives the Lung transmission for the Medicine Buddha as well (of course we don't need the Lung transmission in order to practice a Sutra version of the Medicine Buddha Sadhana).


And like I said Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche gives the Lung transmission for Medicine Buddha, however I haven't seen any book by him on Medicine Buddha.

In receiving the said Lung transmission from Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, I don't see why we couldn't do either of the practices in the above two books.
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:56 pm

And Rinpoche will most likely give the Lung transmission for Medicine Buddha during tomorrow's webcast.
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:48 pm

great ~ does dzogchen have alot to say about the nature of mind/body?..
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Re: Pls introduce me to Dzogchen

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:48 pm

What is presented to the natural mind in dzogchen is an illusion but also a realization of fact and reality?..
Last edited by Wesley1982 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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