Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:20 pm

jundo cohen wrote:
Any questions? One can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, I suppose.

Gassho, Jundo


...stating that face-to-face encounters are “the basis for evaluating a student’s readiness for ordination and eventually membership in the SZBA.” By “face-to-face,” the SZBA board means “in the same physical room.


This statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of how the material aggregates is defined.

M
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby jundo cohen » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:29 pm

Malcolm wrote:
jundo cohen wrote:
Any questions? One can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, I suppose.

Gassho, Jundo


...stating that face-to-face encounters are “the basis for evaluating a student’s readiness for ordination and eventually membership in the SZBA.” By “face-to-face,” the SZBA board means “in the same physical room.


This statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of how the material aggregates is defined.

M


:thumbsup: :namaste:
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Anders » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:30 pm

Malcolm wrote:
jundo cohen wrote:
Any questions? One can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, I suppose.

Gassho, Jundo


...stating that face-to-face encounters are “the basis for evaluating a student’s readiness for ordination and eventually membership in the SZBA.” By “face-to-face,” the SZBA board means “in the same physical room.


This statement betrays a basic lack of understanding of how the material aggregates is defined.

M


As a point of curiosity - how are we to understand how the material aggregates are defined, for the purpose of evaluating a student’s readiness, sub-context of online interaction and all that?
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:43 pm

shel wrote:
jundo cohen wrote:I resigned (I was not banned, though it was rather mutual) from ZFI because I ran into trouble with the owners there who did not care for my critical style...

Not liking a critical style, hmmm...

But anyway, I would be utterly fascinated to learn how you all mutually agreed that you should be "censored." Does that mean you agreed that you should be censored?


You wrote on your website last week that they stopped allowing you to post on their site. Is that not true? That's not resigning...

And I notice that you could not resist making them appear irrational (typical ad hominem tactic) with all the UFO associations etc. Your students may buy your logical fallacies but I don't think many here will.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby jundo cohen » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:49 pm

shel wrote:
shel wrote:
jundo cohen wrote:I resigned (I was not banned, though it was rather mutual) from ZFI because I ran into trouble with the owners there who did not care for my critical style...

Not liking a critical style, hmmm...

But anyway, I would be utterly fascinated to learn how you all mutually agreed that you should be "censored." Does that mean you agreed that you should be censored?


You wrote on your website last week that they stopped allowing you to post on their site. Is that not true? That's not resigning...

And I notice that you could not resist making them appear irrational (typical ad hominem tactic) with all the UFO associations etc.


Hi Shel,

Well, please read the UFO and other threads I linked to yourself and draw your own conclusions.

I am still registered there as a teacher, although I cannot post. After I resigned, they cut off my right to write. I am rather in Forum Limbo! :smile:

Gassho, Jundo
Last edited by jundo cohen on Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:03 pm

jundo cohen wrote:
jundo cohen wrote:I resigned (I was not banned, though it was rather mutual) from ZFI because I ran into trouble with the owners there who did not care for my critical style...
shel wrote:You wrote on your website last week that they stopped allowing you to post on their site. Is that not true? That's not resigning...


Hi Shel,

Well, please read the UFO and other threads I linked to yourself and draw your own conclusions.

I am still registered there as a teacher, although I cannot post. I am rather in Forum Limbo! :smile:

Again I'll mention that your ad hominem tactics don't work on me.

Before you said that you "resigned" in "rather mutual" agreement. Now you admit that they ceased allowing you to post.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby seeker242 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:08 pm

shel wrote:
seeker242 wrote:
shel wrote:If being critical is an expression of hatred doesn't that mean Jundo hates what he's critical of...


No, it's just obvious that you have some personal problem with Jundo and what he says,

You say no but do not explain how Jundo's critiques of Buddhist doctrine and his fellow teachers and students are not hate based. By your logic Jundo must have some personal problem with Buddhist doctrine, and some of his fellow teachers who he describes as being "blind."

even though it's completely and totally irrelevant to your own life.

Well thank you for letting me know what is relevant to my life, Seeker, I appreciate it.

What are you trying to do here? Save his students from "faulty teaching"? How can you save his students if you can't even save yourself? Are you a zen practitioner yourself? Do you know what the zen precepts are? Specifically the one about abstaining from gossiping? How can you say what the proper Buddhist teaching is when you don't even follow it yourself?

Gossip? you mean like saying that other teachers and their students in your own tradition are "the blind leading the blind."?


So why are you so upset about what some guy says on youtube?
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Anders » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:08 pm

what's ad hominem about that? You really are all guns blazing here.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:37 pm

Anders wrote:what's ad hominem about that? You really are all guns blazing here.

I don't believe discussions about UFO's and other "crazies and wingnuts" are relevant as to why Jundo is no longer allowed to post on other forums.

Indeed, isn't it possible to discuss UFOs or postmortem rebirth without offending others and what they believe?
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:38 pm

seeker242 wrote:So why are you so upset about what some guy says on youtube?

Because I'm not so upset about it?
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:50 pm

Oh I see the update now. After Jundo resigned the admins at ZFI made it so he could no longer post on that forum. Why then, after he "resigned," did he change his avatar there to say that he's being censored?
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Anders » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:08 pm

shel wrote:
Anders wrote:what's ad hominem about that? You really are all guns blazing here.

I don't believe discussions about UFO's and other "crazies and wingnuts" are relevant as to why Jundo is no longer allowed to post on other forums.

Indeed, isn't it possible to discuss UFOs or postmortem rebirth without offending others and what they believe?


That has not Ad Hominem. An Ad Hominem argument would be attacking you rather than your arguments.

shel wrote:Oh I see the update now. After Jundo resigned the admins at ZFI made it so he could no longer post on that forum. Why then, after he "resigned," did he change his avatar there to say that he's being censored?


He had that avatar when he was still posting. What business is it of yours why Jundo isn't posting on ZFI? This is a creepy level of interest.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:16 pm

Anders wrote:
shel wrote:Oh I see the update now. After Jundo resigned the admins at ZFI made it so he could no longer post on that forum. Why then, after he "resigned," did he change his avatar there to say that he's being censored?


He had that avatar when he was still posting. What business is it of yours why Jundo isn't posting on ZFI? This is a creepy level of interest.

On his site he wrote that the last thing he could do after they cut him off was change his avatar. And the point was to show that I'm not the only one, as some here seem to be suggesting, who responds to the way Jundo criticizes others and what they believe. Do you follow?
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Fruitzilla » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:20 pm

shel wrote:
Anders wrote:
shel wrote:Oh I see the update now. After Jundo resigned the admins at ZFI made it so he could no longer post on that forum. Why then, after he "resigned," did he change his avatar there to say that he's being censored?


He had that avatar when he was still posting. What business is it of yours why Jundo isn't posting on ZFI? This is a creepy level of interest.

On his site he wrote that the last thing he could do after they cut him off was change his avatar. And the point was to show that I'm not the only one, as some here seem to be suggesting, who responds to the way Jundo criticizes others and what they believe. Do you follow?


I agree with Anders. You really do come over as obsessed shel. Why the interest in attacking Jundo?
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:21 pm

Anders wrote:
shel wrote:
Anders wrote:what's ad hominem about that? You really are all guns blazing here.

I don't believe discussions about UFO's and other "crazies and wingnuts" are relevant as to why Jundo is no longer allowed to post on other forums.

Indeed, isn't it possible to discuss UFOs or postmortem rebirth without offending others and what they believe?


That has not Ad Hominem. An Ad Hominem argument would be attacking you rather than your arguments.

He did not show their arguments for his banning.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:28 pm

Fruitzilla wrote:I agree with Anders. You really do come over as obsessed shel. Why the interest in attacking Jundo?


I'm sorry, Fruitzilla, do my questions and points upset you? If they do just say so and I will stop for your benefit.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Fruitzilla » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:45 pm

shel wrote:
Fruitzilla wrote:I agree with Anders. You really do come over as obsessed shel. Why the interest in attacking Jundo?


I'm sorry, Fruitzilla, do my questions and points upset you? If they do just say so and I will stop for your benefit.


They don't upset me at all. If you stop do it for your own benefit.
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby shel » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:49 pm

Glad to hear it. If anyone else finds it unbearable just let me know. :tongue:
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:08 pm

Anders wrote:Basically, when you have already soaked in study of the Dharma and have firmly integrated refuge, it becomes really hard to be led too much astray. Most of the important stuff that may need to be learned from study is also already properly soaked in after a couple of years of this. And there's a tipping point where the cons begin to outweigh the pros of such an approach and you risk alienating the heart of practise from the practise the head is engaged in.
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen

Postby jundo cohen » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:38 am

Hi Guys,

Matylda just posted this comment over on the Shikantaza thread and, while someone like me is a small shadow to these Great Personages ... I can sure relate to their experiences with conservative establishments:

Matylda wrote: ... Before Kamakura era Buddhism was only for privileged in Japan. For this reason Honen and to bigger extant Shinran provoked outspoken hatred from the establishment. Some of the Honen disciples were beheaded and Shinran narrowly escaped this fate. Zen was the another part of bitter resentment from the establishment. Being highly indifferent to the old religious and political establishment, was a threat to it. Dogen finally had to run away from Uji, were he had founded Koshoji, and the description of the event resounds almost the same adventure like HH Dalai Lama escaping Chinese invasion. This swift turnabout in the religious history was almost like a revolution in Japanese buddhism.

viewtopic.php?p=109013#p109013


Yes, I have had the experience a couple of times of being digitally beheaded, and being banished to the farthest reaches of the Internet.

Here is the closest appropriate smile I could find ... a rolling head ... :rolling:

Gassho, Jundo
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