You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.
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Karma in Dzogchen
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Re: Karma in Dzogchen
by Simon E. » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:53 am
With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.
- Simon E.
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Re: Karma in Dzogchen
by heart » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:21 pm
Simon E. wrote:With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.
What you have to think about Simon is how you met ChNNR, because that is what everyone else is talking about. No one is saying that the natural state have a cause.
/magnus
"The direct, hard to understand, subtle field of knowing, the Great Path, is non-conceptual (akalpana), and entirely beyond the grasp of intellectual thought. Divorced from verbal ideation, it is difficult to point out and as difficult to enquire into. It cannot be communicated through words and [therefore] is not within the scope of the neophyte (adikarmika). Nevertheless the path is to be approached through studying scriptures (sutra) of the World-Teacher and following the personal instructions (upadesa) of one's Guru-ji."
Bodhicittabhavana by Acarya Sri Manjusrimitra
Bodhicittabhavana by Acarya Sri Manjusrimitra
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heart - Posts: 2372
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Re: Karma in Dzogchen
by Simon E. » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:23 pm
To borrow from The Zen folk..." A goose flies over a lake. The goose has no thought to being reflected, the lake has no intention of reflecting it...it all arises together, goose, lake, reflection. ".
"How " does not apply. All arises in vast emptiness.
"How " does not apply. All arises in vast emptiness.
- Simon E.
- Posts: 783
- Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am
Re: Karma in Dzogchen
by heart » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 am
This was posted by rai in an other thread, listen to it please Simon
The goose have the intention of moving south for the winter and was thus flying over the lake. Intention and action is what karma is and I am pretty sure you have both still.
/magnus
The goose have the intention of moving south for the winter and was thus flying over the lake. Intention and action is what karma is and I am pretty sure you have both still.
/magnus
"The direct, hard to understand, subtle field of knowing, the Great Path, is non-conceptual (akalpana), and entirely beyond the grasp of intellectual thought. Divorced from verbal ideation, it is difficult to point out and as difficult to enquire into. It cannot be communicated through words and [therefore] is not within the scope of the neophyte (adikarmika). Nevertheless the path is to be approached through studying scriptures (sutra) of the World-Teacher and following the personal instructions (upadesa) of one's Guru-ji."
Bodhicittabhavana by Acarya Sri Manjusrimitra
Bodhicittabhavana by Acarya Sri Manjusrimitra
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heart - Posts: 2372
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Re: Institutional Buddhism
by Sally Gross » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:40 pm
Simon E. wrote:Karma/vipaka is operative to the degree that we give it power by identification.
We do not need to be fully realized in order for a lack of identification with actor/action/consequence to arise.
We do need however to be introduced to our natural condition by one who is realized.
From a rather different perspective, karma (kamma) is cetanaa, intention; and cetanaa is presumably linked with attachment for better or for worse. Where there is no attachment, there is presumably no intention in the requisite sense and consequently no karma/kamma or vipaaka. Being in the natural condition, in instant presence, is thus what is called kiriya or kriya in the Paali Abhidhamma, consciousness which acts but is inoperative karmically. On this conception, the actions of a Buddha are kiriya or kriya. It doesn't follow from our being able to relax in a kriya state for a time, however, that karma is a con or that it is irrelevant.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati
Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.
- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati
Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.
- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90
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Sally Gross - Posts: 209
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- Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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