How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
User avatar
Ikkyu
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Ikkyu » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:35 pm

"Nothing can be known, not even this."
-- Arcesilaus (but I'm not sure)

(cutting through bullshit, and sometimes failing... that's ok, though)


User avatar
Seishin
Former staff member
Posts: 1783
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Contact:

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Seishin » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:43 pm


User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Astus » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:45 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 2816
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:47 pm

Image




User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Astus » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:47 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
sangyey
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:00 am

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby sangyey » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:47 pm

Faith is the cause for taking refuge and being the gateway to the Dharma. There are three kinds:


User avatar
Monlam Tharchin
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Monlam Tharchin » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:51 pm

I think many of your questions are similar to someone being incredulous that astronomers can tell the composition and age of stars with spectroscopy and other sciences. If you don't understand the foundations and layers that support the more advanced principles, they'll seem like nonsense or non sequiturs. Not to mention that kind of knowledge is useless to someone not really interested in astronomy.

When you consider that Buddhism is not merely a new way of quantifying the physical world (hence why asking for empirical proof of some things is a bit odd), but rather a worldview entirely different from our usual inside/outside, me/others, true/false set of dichotomies, it becomes even more difficult to fit it into our nice little system of logical compartments.

I really recommend a patient, step-by-step approach. Do what you find helps you and others. They're pretty much the same thing anyway. Then your horizons of investigation will expand.
on hiatus since September, 2017

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:07 pm

You can realize the benefits of the path progressively. That is, you can directly experience and realize changes to your quality of mind and life from the teachings and their practice. Such changes are not a matter of faith because you realize them I'm the first person.

Also if you look at the core teachings objectively, they don't rely on belief in miracles in the sense that (say) Christianity does. You can start from the premise that 'craving is the cause of suffering' which is empirically demonstrable. If you think through the consequences to that principle it provides an important component of the path.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:17 pm

One other point. Don't get hung up on externals. I endeavor to practice meditation daily - OK I miss some days- and constantly read and reflect. To me the point of my formal 'going for refuge' was simply a means to bolster my sense of identity with the 'community of like-minded', which is the Sangha (edit - and also to make a public acknowledgement of intention, something to live up to - end edit). But it's not a matter of 'belief' as far as I am concerned. The whole practice, start to finish, is based on the understanding of the reality of life as it is lived by humans.
Last edited by Wayfarer on Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Anders
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Anders » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:27 pm

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

User avatar
Wayfarer
Posts: 3382
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:32 pm

Neurobiology cannot yet explain gross mental maladies, let alone provide any kind of 'explanation' of things like talent, latent capabilities, and the like. The belief that this can all be 'explained' in terms of peptides and neurochemicals is just that - a belief, based on putting science in the slot formerly occuPied by you-know-who.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

User avatar
Anders
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Anders » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:33 pm

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

User avatar
dharmagoat
Posts: 2154
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:39 pm

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby dharmagoat » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:47 pm


User avatar
Anders
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Anders » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:21 am

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby LastLegend » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:29 am

Teachings are important to study...study/listen to dharma talks and read sutras. Reflect. Don't get too caught up with words. If don't get it, read again and again until you get it. Investigate. Understanding will clear some doubts. But doubt seems to be a common theme which I think arises due to being impatience/expectation.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

User avatar
KathyLauren
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: East Coast of Canada
Contact:

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby KathyLauren » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:40 am

Last edited by KathyLauren on Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Wesley1982
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Wesley1982 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:41 am


User avatar
dharmagoat
Posts: 2154
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:39 pm

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby dharmagoat » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:50 am

If the Dharma is like medicine, as my lama once described it, and if we trust our physician, then we simply take it as it is given. If it works, we realise that our physician was right in administering it. If not, we may then choose to change our physician. At no point do we actually need to understand how the medicine actually works. It is all ultimately about trust. For some of us that can be the most difficult part.

AlexanderS
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby AlexanderS » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:36 pm

I can recommend "The Quantum and The lotus" by Mathieu Ricard.

It won't prove the points, but it offers insight by a very realized practioner and an authentic highly intelligent man.

you can youtube, penor rinpoche rainbow, and a see a circular rainbow appearing at his funeral/cremation.

Rainbows in one way or another, seem to appear a masters deaths, often on a clear sky.

You can find lots of little things, where you can try and fit the bits and pieces together.

If you can get close to highly respected master, I think faith in the teachings will come naturally.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:54 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests