Karma in Dzogchen

Simon E.
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Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:53 am

With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.

:namaste:
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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heart
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Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Postby heart » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:21 pm

Simon E. wrote:With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.

:namaste:


What you have to think about Simon is how you met ChNNR, because that is what everyone else is talking about. No one is saying that the natural state have a cause.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

Simon E.
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:23 pm

To borrow from The Zen folk..." A goose flies over a lake. The goose has no thought to being reflected, the lake has no intention of reflecting it...it all arises together, goose, lake, reflection. ".
"How " does not apply. All arises in vast emptiness.
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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heart
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Postby heart » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 am

This was posted by rai in an other thread, listen to it please Simon

phpBB [video]


The goose have the intention of moving south for the winter and was thus flying over the lake. Intention and action is what karma is and I am pretty sure you have both still.

/magnus
We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

-Longchenpa

Simon E.
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Postby Simon E. » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:13 pm

You view is duly noted. :namaste:
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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Sally Gross
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Sally Gross » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:40 pm

Simon E. wrote:Karma/vipaka is operative to the degree that we give it power by identification.
We do not need to be fully realized in order for a lack of identification with actor/action/consequence to arise.
We do need however to be introduced to our natural condition by one who is realized.


From a rather different perspective, karma (kamma) is cetanaa, intention; and cetanaa is presumably linked with attachment for better or for worse. Where there is no attachment, there is presumably no intention in the requisite sense and consequently no karma/kamma or vipaaka. Being in the natural condition, in instant presence, is thus what is called kiriya or kriya in the Paali Abhidhamma, consciousness which acts but is inoperative karmically. On this conception, the actions of a Buddha are kiriya or kriya. It doesn't follow from our being able to relax in a kriya state for a time, however, that karma is a con or that it is irrelevant.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:04 am

Cool post Sally. Very interesting.


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