My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:33 am

Karma Dorje wrote:Exactly, and if it was a woman that had been raped you would have said the causes and conditions were that her dress was too short. We get it.
All you "get" is your narrow and hysterical interpretation of my words. Her dress being too short may have been one of the causes that lead to her rape. It may not have been one of the main causes and I would not consider it a valid "excuse" on the rapists behalf, but it cannot be ruled out completely as one of the causes.
Must do everything but hold fallible, human institutions to account simply because they bear the name "buddhist" like some sort of "Get Out of Jail Free" card. Outstanding.
Hogwash. I have said nothing about KPC not also being responsible for the situation. Stop projecting, check your emotions and come back for an intelligent dialogue.
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Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:43 am

mujushinkyo wrote:Of course. Greeks . . .
The first time this was brought up it was neither funny nor relevant. Now I am seriously considering reporting people for racist comments. I have noticed that you like to latch onto any comment thrown out which may be used as a life raft to save your flimsy reasoning, this comment is not one of the ones you should cling to.
And there I was, just shaking my ass in my short skirt, karmically speaking. The Buddhists just couldn't help themselves.

Another way of looking at this KPC/FBI situation -- and this one is entirely compatible with Tibetan teachings -- is that my truly miraculous and excellent karma has put me in the enviable position of being able to put a stop to the criminal activities of a malicious pseudo-Buddhist cult, even if I had to take some heat to do so. Due to my compassionate and selfless work, these nastily-behaving lizards may yet achieve a better rebirth, find a more competent Guru endowed with sound teachings and authentic Tantra techniques, and attain Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi in only ten kalpas rather than ten billon.
If you are not a Buddhist and have so many issues with Buddhism then why did you come to a Buddhist forum and why are you asking a Buddhist teacher to solve your problem for you? Many people here, including myself, have suggested secular legal action as the best way to deal with the situation. I mean really, let's look at the situation: you (a pseudo-Buddhist by your own admission) is trying to take out KPC (a pseudo-Buddhist organisation by all accounts) using a Buddhist forum to "advertise" your activity and appealing to a Buddhist teacher to act on your behalf. :rolleye:

Go get a good lawyer and stop wasting everybodys (including your own) time.
:namaste:
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby anikunzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:50 am

I am horrified, amused and amazed on reading this thread. Yes, I am a student of Jetsunma's. Yes, I had the privilege to be ordained by HH Penor Rinpoche. I was also blessed to attend Palyul Summer Retreat for six years and with my own ears hear HH Penor Rinpoche defend Jetsunma as a pure Tulku. And say that following all the negativity said about her (and Steven Segal) he would probably not reveal any more western Tulkus. Because we have no understanding of what a Tulku - and an enlightened being like Jetsunma - truly is. We measure and describe them with our very small ordinary minds, and think we can judge their behaviour and action with ordinary yardsticks of what we think a Tulku or spiritual being should be. I find the things being said here very silly and quite laughable, if it it weren't for the nasty vindictive energy that is propelling this conversation. It seems that it is predominantly guys saying this stuff here - guess you can't handle that a wisdom dakini is the living presence of the activity of Bodhicitta - however that may look to us. You probably will write me off as brainwashed by Jetsunma and the cult. No worries. I wonder if Gyatrul Rinpoche or HH Karma Kuchen Rinpoche arent responding because why should they spend their precious time dealing with these ridiculous tirades written about Jetsunma? Hmmm think that could be the case? I am grateful that at least I am not so blinded by my ego that I cannot discriminate between what is extraordinary pure compassionate wisdom and what is just a bunch of disgruntled people thinking they can define what enlightened mind will look like in this world. Best of luck to you all on the Path. I hope clarity comes to you soon. In the meantime, I am very glad to be Jetsunma's student and open to the blessings she offers all who are willing to see, hear and listen with an open heart.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Karma Dorje » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:25 am

anikunzang wrote:I am horrified, amused and amazed on reading this thread. Yes, I am a student of Jetsunma's. Yes, I had the privilege to be ordained by HH Penor Rinpoche. I was also blessed to attend Palyul Summer Retreat for six years and with my own ears hear HH Penor Rinpoche defend Jetsunma as a pure Tulku. And say that following all the negativity said about her (and Steven Segal) he would probably not reveal any more western Tulkus. Because we have no understanding of what a Tulku - and an enlightened being like Jetsunma - truly is. We measure and describe them with our very small ordinary minds, and think we can judge their behaviour and action with ordinary yardsticks of what we think a Tulku or spiritual being should be. I find the things being said here very silly and quite laughable, if it it weren't for the nasty vindictive energy that is propelling this conversation. It seems that it is predominantly guys saying this stuff here - guess you can't handle that a wisdom dakini is the living presence of the activity of Bodhicitta - however that may look to us. You probably will write me off as brainwashed by Jetsunma and the cult. No worries. I wonder if Gyatrul Rinpoche or HH Karma Kuchen Rinpoche arent responding because why should they spend their precious time dealing with these ridiculous tirades written about Jetsunma? Hmmm think that could be the case? I am grateful that at least I am not so blinded by my ego that I cannot discriminate between what is extraordinary pure compassionate wisdom and what is just a bunch of disgruntled people thinking they can define what enlightened mind will look like in this world. Best of luck to you all on the Path. I hope clarity comes to you soon. In the meantime, I am very glad to be Jetsunma's student and open to the blessings she offers all who are willing to see, hear and listen with an open heart.


Yet he did recognize other Westerners, but quietly (even tertons that had spent their lives in strict retreat). I don't doubt your faith or good intentions and rejoice that you spent so much time with Penor Rinpoche, who was my refuge lama and whom I received many precious teachings from. I don't doubt for a moment his recognition of Ahkon Lhamo. What I question is whether she has measured up to the standards of the tradition as a teacher. Perhaps you were taught differently, but my guru always said that we should examine the qualities of the guru according to the 50 Verses of Guru Devotion.

The great masters of the Palyul tradition all spent considerable time in retreat. They were very careful to preserve their reputation as peerless meditators and scholars. This has carried on to this day. Has this been carried on by Ahkon Lhamo? Is she capable of bestowing the wongs, lung and tri for the lineage's teaching? If it was enough to merely be recognized, then why did Penor Rinpoche spend so many years in retreat? Why did he take gelong vows? Surely you are not equating Penor Rinpoche and Ahkon Lhamo's realization. If even the emanation of Vimalamitra did so much, is there really any question that someone else of lesser stature should do at least as much?

While I respect your viewpoint and your devotion to your teacher, I strenuously reject your accusation of sexism. Jetsun Kushok is one of my teachers and she is an example of one who truly deserves the title. I have tremendous respect for the accomplished western woman practitioners like Sangye Khandro, Sarah Harding, etc. They have all done the requisite retreats, actualized the teachings and display faultless conduct that does not bring disrepute and controversy to their teachers. Most critics of Ahkon Lhamo do not criticize her because she is a woman. The criticize her because there is such a gulf between her claims of holiness and her behaviour.

I am certain that Penor Rinpoche had high hopes for Ahkon Lhamo. I am equally certain that her behaviour broke his heart. I wish you all the best. I truly hope that Ahkon Lhamo wakes up to her potential.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:37 am

mujushinkyo wrote: You're stuck in a ridiculous religious delusion; I have no interest in it. You're also being very rude! Where's the "humility, acceptance, perseverance and wisdom" in this reply.......

I'm sorry if you think I was being rude it was not my intention however, like a few other posters on this thread I was trying to point out that there is a way you could deal with this situation skillfully using the teachings on thought transformation. That you choose not to do so is, imho, your loss. This is a Buddhist forum so it shouldn't be surprising that a few of us suggest you think about past lives, karma and personal responsibility for the problems you are facing. It's what we are taught and it's what many of us believe. It's a very effective method to help understand, let go of and move on from difficult and painful circumstances.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Nemo » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:41 am

I never doubted she was a Tulku. A minor Tulku though, not Mandarava. HH Penor Rinpoche never said that. Penor Rinpoche did go on to recognize more Tulkus quietly. They of course did not bother to publicize this fact. Not needing fame or a title they simply wanted to practice and go into retreat.

anikunzang wrote:Because we have no understanding of what a Tulku - and an enlightened being like Jetsunma - truly is. We measure and describe them with our very small ordinary minds, and think we can judge their behaviour and action with ordinary yardsticks of what we think a Tulku or spiritual being should be.


So Jetsumna's unethical activities, after mixing with the magical pixie dust of Tulku sweat, are actually wondrous blessings. A woman who has been under psychiatric care for years, takes multiple psychiatric drugs and tops them off with gin and marijuana. You are also subconsciously indicating that KPC is guilty of some of the charges here and you have to use this rationalization to make them palatable to your own mind. You did not simply denounce them as false.

I worry about you in your old age. Jetsumna obviously does not. Her capriciousness and vindictiveness have doomed her legacy. I hope you have learned that the information ops like the ones you pulled on Andrew will come back and bite you in the ass. Nobody likes bullies.

P.S. You still haven't apologized to Andrew.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:59 am

anikunzang wrote:I am horrified, amused and amazed on reading this thread. Yes, I am a student of Jetsunma's. Yes, I had the privilege to be ordained by HH Penor Rinpoche. I was also blessed to attend Palyul Summer Retreat for six years and with my own ears hear HH Penor Rinpoche defend Jetsunma as a pure Tulku. And say that following all the negativity said about her (and Steven Segal) he would probably not reveal any more western Tulkus. Because we have no understanding of what a Tulku - and an enlightened being like Jetsunma - truly is. We measure and describe them with our very small ordinary minds, and think we can judge their behaviour and action with ordinary yardsticks of what we think a Tulku or spiritual being should be. I find the things being said here very silly and quite laughable, if it it weren't for the nasty vindictive energy that is propelling this conversation. It seems that it is predominantly guys saying this stuff here - guess you can't handle that a wisdom dakini is the living presence of the activity of Bodhicitta - however that may look to us. You probably will write me off as brainwashed by Jetsunma and the cult. No worries. I wonder if Gyatrul Rinpoche or HH Karma Kuchen Rinpoche arent responding because why should they spend their precious time dealing with these ridiculous tirades written about Jetsunma? Hmmm think that could be the case? I am grateful that at least I am not so blinded by my ego that I cannot discriminate between what is extraordinary pure compassionate wisdom and what is just a bunch of disgruntled people thinking they can define what enlightened mind will look like in this world. Best of luck to you all on the Path. I hope clarity comes to you soon. In the meantime, I am very glad to be Jetsunma's student and open to the blessings she offers all who are willing to see, hear and listen with an open heart.


... oh nooo... ani-la. There's no way to join this fray without getting covered in pooh. This is a pooh-fight.

*facepalm* I can't see you get torn apart here ... sigh.

I agree with everything you say, except the characterization of the members. I've read more than this thread. I've talked to some people in PMs and other, non-pooh bearing threads. These are sincere practitioners, some of whom have had tough experiences in Dharma centers or are far away from their teachers or their teachers are inaccessible. Many of them have talked about personal responsibility and lujong--and gotten kicked in the head for it. Point taken on the vindictive energy propelling this conversation.

That said... hello, everyone, I'd like to introduce you to my friend Ani Kunzang. She's a wonderful ani who's deeply involved in animal rescue and terrific practitioner who's a main-stay in KPC's tsa-lung practice. She's not a veteran of online forums and doesn't know what she's letting herself in for. I do know, however. Please don't treat her badly, pooh fight or not.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:08 am

Karma Dorje, thank you for your respectful tone towards ani-la. A pooh-fight is no way to join a forum, but I'm not going to let her walk into this alone.

Karma Dorje wrote:Is she (Ahkon Lhamo) capable of bestowing the wongs, lung and tri for the lineage's teaching?


Tri -- Yes, she's been given the authorization to give commentary from 1987 on.
Likewise, in 1987, her Bodhisattva and Lay Renunciate vows were authorized by HH Penor Rinpoche as belonging to the lineage. I'll have to ask Ani Aileen for the videotape to get the exact phrasing.

Lung -- Yes, she's given lung many time for ngundro, shower of blessings, and most of the temple practices.

Wang -- You'd have to ask HH Karma Kuchen Rinpoche.
She was enthroned, she's done ngundro (Gyaltrul Rinpoche), tsa-lung (Gyaltrul Rinpoche), trekchod (HH Kusum Lingpa), togyal (HH Kusum Lingpa), and dzogchen (His Holiness Penor Rinpoche). I don't see why not. The main problem is Tibetan. She has a passing knowledge of Tibetan, some vocab, I don't know how much grammar. She took classes way back when, but I don't think it's enough to do the ritual manual without a translation.

* Here's the text of her Bodhisattva Vow:

I dedicate myself to the liberation and salvation of all sentient beings. I offer my body, speech, and mind in order to accomplish the purpose of all sentient beings. I will return in whatever form necessary, under extraordinary circumstances to end suffering. Let me be born in times unpredictable, in places unknown, until all sentient beings are liberated from the cycle of death and rebirth.

Taking no thought for my comfort or safety, precious Lama (Buddha), make of me a pure and perfect instrument by which the end of suffering and death in all forms might be realized. Let me achieve perfect enlightenment for the sake of all beings. And then by my hand and heart alone, may all beings achieve full enlightenment and perfect liberation.

His Holiness Penor Rinpoche liked it.

I'm seeing a lot of loose accusations about Jetsunma's "behavior" but frankly, Mujushinkyo brought the FBI on himself.

He Tweeted things like "I'm coming tulku k-k-k-kill you" to @jalpalyul (her Twitter account) while there was an ongoing investigation of Bill Cassidy, a convicted felon indicted for rape (pled down to assault), who was also threatening her. Why say stuff like that?
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:03 am

Nemo wrote: A woman who has been under psychiatric care for years, takes multiple psychiatric drugs and tops them off with gin and marijuana..

Is there any evidence that this is true? I mean how do you know? Were you one of her close students, have you actually seen her use these things? Did you smoke a bong with her or something? Just asking because it's an incredible allegation to make on a public forum but if there's real proof then ok.....
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Nemo » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:57 am

She has publicly admitted being under psychiatric care and recommenced books given to her by her shrink on twitter. As well I showed an email from one of her personal attendants(Ani Alana) earlier in this thread. (Wellbutrin, Lexapro and Xanax) A few Lamas have tried to teach Jetsumna, but the afternoon pot smoking and lack of discipline to practice made them abandon the project and never return. There was extensive drug paraphernalia by her bed and she would often smoke in front of her son.

Out of respect for truth and Dharma please do some research. It is the least we can do. I had no dog in this fight until I saw how bad it really was. Then I had no choice but to get involved.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:04 am

Nemo wrote:She has publicly admitted being under psychiatric care and recommenced books given to her by her shrink on twitter. As well I showed an email from one of her personal attendants(Ani Alana) earlier in this thread. (Wellbutrin, Lexapro and Xanax) A few Lamas have tried to teach Jetsumna, but the afternoon pot smoking and lack of discipline to practice made them abandon the project and never return. There was extensive drug paraphernalia by her bed and she would often smoke in front of her son.

Out of respect for truth and Dharma please do some research. It is the least we can do. I had no dog in this fight until I saw how bad it really was. Then I had no choice but to get involved.


Where is this letter? I have a (rather nasty...) letter from Ani Alana from 1996 and I can compare the handwriting and signature.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:11 am

Nemo wrote:Out of respect for truth and Dharma please do some research. It is the least we can do. I had no dog in this fight until I saw how bad it really was. Then I had no choice but to get involved.

As I said if there's proof OK in which case the right thing to do is to get it out there so people know. Just trying to sort out fact from fiction.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Jinzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:52 pm

mujushinkyo wrote:Whoa! Slow down. Slander? When did I slander anybody?

Let's imagine you're walking down the street and a group of Buddhists attacks you. They begin punching and kicking you and calling you by someone else's name. "Bill," maybe. At first you tell them you're not Bill. Liar! they scream, and hit you harder. ...
That's not just a metaphor. It's the reality of what happened.


You're saying Jetsunma's students literally punched and kicked you, something that never happened. That qualifies as slander by my definition. Either that, or you don't understand the English language.

mujushinkyo wrote:Wake up, man. This Lojong thing was used as mind control by the Tibetan feudal elite -- no different than the "love thy neighbor" talk of feudal Christianity. It's a crude theory of karma. Really, in my view, it's not even Buddhist.


We'll have to differ on that. In my opinion, love your enemy and Mind Training are the most sublime teachings.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:23 pm

anikunzang wrote:Because we have no understanding of what a Tulku - and an enlightened being like Jetsunma - truly is.
Really? You think people are so immature and unintelligent that they cannot tell their ass from their elbow? Or are you saying that only you and a select few can?
We measure and describe them with our very small ordinary minds, and think we can judge their behaviour and action with ordinary yardsticks of what we think a Tulku or spiritual being should be.
Stephen Segal, since you brought him up, was accused of raping sex slaves that he had purchased through the Russian flesh market. Even somebody with a small ordinary mind can see that the man is a cretin. No amount of spiritual hogwash can cover that up. As for your teacher, I know nothing at all about her, her actions and her capacity, except what has been said here. I'll take the info from both sides with a large dose of salt. Many of those involved in this discussion (including yourself) have too much at stake to be taken at face value.
It seems that it is predominantly guys saying this stuff here - guess you can't handle that a wisdom dakini is the living presence of the activity of Bodhicitta - however that may look to us.
This is a red herring.
I wonder if Gyatrul Rinpoche or HH Karma Kuchen Rinpoche arent responding because why should they spend their precious time dealing with these ridiculous tirades written about Jetsunma? Hmmm think that could be the case?
Maybe they just don't want to get involved, who knows? But don't be too sure of what you are saying, the jury is still out on that one, and you may not appreciate the taste of your own foot.
I am grateful that at least I am not so blinded by my ego that I cannot discriminate between what is extraordinary pure compassionate wisdom and what is just a bunch of disgruntled people thinking they can define what enlightened mind will look like in this world.
So what are you saying? Only you see through pure compassionate wisdom? Only you can define the enlightened mind? Watch what you are saying anikunzang, you never know when may find yourself falling from your high horse and the higher you are the more painful the fall.
:namaste:
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby anikunzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:45 pm

I never doubted she was a Tulku. A minor Tulku though, not Mandarava. HH Penor Rinpoche never said that. Penor Rinpoche did go on to recognize more Tulkus quietly. They of course did not bother to publicize this fact. Not needing fame or a title they simply wanted to practice and go into retreat.
Nemo
My point is that what we as ordinary individuals decide is Truth with regards to who a Tulku is, what a Tulku needs to do to be authentic or judge their behavior...or say they are a "minor" Tulku (that makes me laugh)....is ludicrous and absurd in terms of everything I have read or been taught about Vajrayana from great and pure teachers.
It is nonsense to me. It is saying that ordinary mind can determine how primordial wisdom can display in this realm, as if that pure nature is something we can force into certain constraints that we approve, feel comfortable with, think is appropriate etc
You are correct, it was Orgyen Kusum Lingpa and not HH Penor Rinpoche who recognised Jetsunma as Mandarava and an emanation of White Tara. So do we start to question his credentials? That leads us to HH the Dalai Lama....so is the issue that the whole Tulku system, indeed perhaps Tibetan Buddhism per se, has no substance or truth because of what we think?
As I said, HH on two different years at retreat publicly challenged the debate going on in the USA about who Jetsunma is, if she is pure, and stood behind his recognition of her and her purity as a Tulku ad Teacher. I guess it is easy now that he is not in Nirmanakaya form in this realm for people to start pulling Jetsunma apart and saying he regretted that.
I also agree with folks here that we can never ignore cause and effect and always point the finger externally. That is why we are on this Path - to look into our habits and accept that we have created what is happening to us. Yet we also have been fortunate enough to connect with tools to help us change in a positive way.
I apologise to anyone offended by my comments on the gender aspect involved in judgment of Jetsunma. I know it exists, but I should not presume it is the case for everyone here.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby conebeckham » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:56 pm

Ani-la, and Simhamukha, and everyone else-

I know several advanced female practitioners of Vajrayana, and have great respect and admiration for them. I also have vajra sisters, who I am certain are better practitioners than I......

The issue here has nothing to do with gender. It is truly a red herring.

The issue is not with gender, it is with behavior. That word encompasses many things--many allegations.

Much of what is written in this thread is heresay. Nemo's made some comments and claims which, if verified, would lead any serious Vajrayana practitioner to question Jetsunma/Catherine/Alyce's "qualities," not to mention her "qualifications." I'm not sure how such claims could be verified, and I'm not sure Dharma Wheel is the place for such verification. However, there is a letter, on the "Pure Lineage" blog, ostensibly from Kyabje Penor Rinpoche, which clearly critiques her behavior. If it is a true letter, and not a forgery, that, in itself, should be enough to cause any serious Vajrayana practitioner to question....

We should look only at behaviors, and things that can be factually verified, and not get into aspersions of motivation, etc., in my opinion. This isn't, and shouldn't be, about "Gender," or about "Tibetan Vs. Western," or anything else but that which can be verified.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Norwegian » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:07 pm

Someone can be recognized by whomever as whatever.

That my friend is only a recognition. It does not mean that the game is won, that everything is said and done.

So, this is just a start. Now, you do the work. When I look at someone, and who they are and what they've done in life, I don't start and stop with their titles. I look at their views, and their actions. What results do they have to show for? How is their attitude and behaviour? If they're a teacher, what do they teach? Do they know these things well or not? And so on.

This is important. A title and a recognition is absolutely not important, and if you think it is, you've missed the point entirely.

The Tibetan tulku system has been a problem for a long, long time due to "recognitions" done by teachers (legit or not) merely as an act of kindness, or as a part of the good old money/power game, where a monastery gets a tulku with name-credentials that helps that monastery to receive more support (in the form of money, offerings and so on). There are countless examples of both of these. It's really a pity.

Then, of course there are tulkus who were actual rebirths of their predecessor, and not just by name, a good example of that would be His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche.

All in all, just because someone is recognized as whomever does not make me want to lick the ground they walk upon.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby anikunzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:15 pm

So what are you saying? Only you see through pure compassionate wisdom? Only you can define the enlightened mind?

I did not intend my post to suggest that I am any different than any other ordinary being. I certainly am not and never claim to be. I live in and perpetuate my own delusion every day. I am unable to define how enlightened mind will manifest. Because of this the extraordinary blessing of Pure Lineage and Teachers and the Tulku system is immeasurable. This provides me with a method to work through my delusion by relying on something pure and unbroken and proven.
I am not saying, believe Jetsunma is a Tulku and a display of enlightened mind because I think she is. I am suggesting that if you review the many, many recognised pure Teachers who have recognised, honor and support her and her compassionate activity, and reflect on that, it makes no sense to me to refute that with anger and judgment based on ordinary view.
I am on this Path because i believe ordinary view (in which I am immersed because that is the nature of samsara) is inherently flawed. If I see a debate pitting anger and judgement about things which arose in samsara against a person recognised, enthroned as a lineage holder, honored and supported by great Teachers and who teaches pure Dharma (not as judged by me), then I will speak out.
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby swampflower » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:22 pm

mujushinkyo wrote:
swampflower wrote:I would not say necessarily that your sincere (your words) and open letter stinks, however if that was your intent this would have ended there.
I would personally be ashamed to post an open letter to a respected teacher and then pile all the BS on top of my letter.
That is about as clear as I can be.


That's not very clear. So I'm sorry that's as clear as you can be. What's the BS I've piled on top of my letter? I am answering questions, aren't I?

Who are you to know what my intent is, anyhow? Do you read minds? Are you supernaturally wise?


I see you are rather thick, make many unfounded assumptions, try to give Buddhist teachings although you state you are not a Buddhist and that you, sir are full of yourself and beyond reason.
You continue to cause stuff to rain down on you. Wake up.
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:36 pm

anikunzang wrote:I am not saying, believe Jetsunma is a Tulku and a display of enlightened mind because I think she is. I am suggesting that if you review the many, many recognised pure Teachers who have recognised, honor and support her and her compassionate activity, and reflect on that, it makes no sense to me to refute that with anger and judgment based on ordinary view.
If you read my previous posts you would have seen that I made no judgement whatsoever on your teacher Jetsunma, actually I spent a large portion of my time trying to get Mujushinkyo to understand that what happened to him also had to do with him. But since you are here, instead of talking about whether Jetsunma is enlightened or not (another red herring), why not clarify your position regarding the actions taken by your vajra brothers and sisters against Mujushinkyo? Because if even half of what Mujushinkyo has to say is true, it is more than enough to cast doubt upon the purity of the intentions and actions of your sangha members.
:namaste:
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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