My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:33 am

Last edited by Grigoris on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:43 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
anikunzang
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:32 am
Location: MD

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby anikunzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:50 am

I am horrified, amused and amazed on reading this thread. Yes, I am a student of Jetsunma's. Yes, I had the privilege to be ordained by HH Penor Rinpoche. I was also blessed to attend Palyul Summer Retreat for six years and with my own ears hear HH Penor Rinpoche defend Jetsunma as a pure Tulku. And say that following all the negativity said about her (and Steven Segal) he would probably not reveal any more western Tulkus. Because we have no understanding of what a Tulku - and an enlightened being like Jetsunma - truly is. We measure and describe them with our very small ordinary minds, and think we can judge their behaviour and action with ordinary yardsticks of what we think a Tulku or spiritual being should be. I find the things being said here very silly and quite laughable, if it it weren't for the nasty vindictive energy that is propelling this conversation. It seems that it is predominantly guys saying this stuff here - guess you can't handle that a wisdom dakini is the living presence of the activity of Bodhicitta - however that may look to us. You probably will write me off as brainwashed by Jetsunma and the cult. No worries. I wonder if Gyatrul Rinpoche or HH Karma Kuchen Rinpoche arent responding because why should they spend their precious time dealing with these ridiculous tirades written about Jetsunma? Hmmm think that could be the case? I am grateful that at least I am not so blinded by my ego that I cannot discriminate between what is extraordinary pure compassionate wisdom and what is just a bunch of disgruntled people thinking they can define what enlightened mind will look like in this world. Best of luck to you all on the Path. I hope clarity comes to you soon. In the meantime, I am very glad to be Jetsunma's student and open to the blessings she offers all who are willing to see, hear and listen with an open heart.

User avatar
Karma Dorje
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Karma Dorje » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:25 am

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

Tilopa
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:53 am

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:37 am


User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Canada

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Nemo » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:41 am


User avatar
simhamuka
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:59 am

Sengdongma has an easy job, because there are no enemies.

User avatar
simhamuka
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:08 am

Sengdongma has an easy job, because there are no enemies.

Tilopa
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:53 am

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:03 am


User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 795
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Canada

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Nemo » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:57 am

She has publicly admitted being under psychiatric care and recommenced books given to her by her shrink on twitter. As well I showed an email from one of her personal attendants(Ani Alana) earlier in this thread. (Wellbutrin, Lexapro and Xanax) A few Lamas have tried to teach Jetsumna, but the afternoon pot smoking and lack of discipline to practice made them abandon the project and never return. There was extensive drug paraphernalia by her bed and she would often smoke in front of her son.

Out of respect for truth and Dharma please do some research. It is the least we can do. I had no dog in this fight until I saw how bad it really was. Then I had no choice but to get involved.

User avatar
simhamuka
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby simhamuka » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:04 am

Sengdongma has an easy job, because there are no enemies.

Tilopa
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:53 am

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Tilopa » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:11 am


Jinzang
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:11 am

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Jinzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:52 pm

"It's as plain as the nose on your face!"

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:23 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
anikunzang
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:32 am
Location: MD

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby anikunzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:45 pm


User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4553
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby conebeckham » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:56 pm

Ani-la, and Simhamukha, and everyone else-

I know several advanced female practitioners of Vajrayana, and have great respect and admiration for them. I also have vajra sisters, who I am certain are better practitioners than I......

The issue here has nothing to do with gender. It is truly a red herring.

The issue is not with gender, it is with behavior. That word encompasses many things--many allegations.

Much of what is written in this thread is heresay. Nemo's made some comments and claims which, if verified, would lead any serious Vajrayana practitioner to question Jetsunma/Catherine/Alyce's "qualities," not to mention her "qualifications." I'm not sure how such claims could be verified, and I'm not sure Dharma Wheel is the place for such verification. However, there is a letter, on the "Pure Lineage" blog, ostensibly from Kyabje Penor Rinpoche, which clearly critiques her behavior. If it is a true letter, and not a forgery, that, in itself, should be enough to cause any serious Vajrayana practitioner to question....

We should look only at behaviors, and things that can be factually verified, and not get into aspersions of motivation, etc., in my opinion. This isn't, and shouldn't be, about "Gender," or about "Tibetan Vs. Western," or anything else but that which can be verified.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Norwegian
Posts: 936
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Norwegian » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:07 pm

Someone can be recognized by whomever as whatever.

That my friend is only a recognition. It does not mean that the game is won, that everything is said and done.

So, this is just a start. Now, you do the work. When I look at someone, and who they are and what they've done in life, I don't start and stop with their titles. I look at their views, and their actions. What results do they have to show for? How is their attitude and behaviour? If they're a teacher, what do they teach? Do they know these things well or not? And so on.

This is important. A title and a recognition is absolutely not important, and if you think it is, you've missed the point entirely.

The Tibetan tulku system has been a problem for a long, long time due to "recognitions" done by teachers (legit or not) merely as an act of kindness, or as a part of the good old money/power game, where a monastery gets a tulku with name-credentials that helps that monastery to receive more support (in the form of money, offerings and so on). There are countless examples of both of these. It's really a pity.

Then, of course there are tulkus who were actual rebirths of their predecessor, and not just by name, a good example of that would be His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche.

All in all, just because someone is recognized as whomever does not make me want to lick the ground they walk upon.

User avatar
anikunzang
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:32 am
Location: MD

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby anikunzang » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:15 pm


User avatar
swampflower
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: Bellefonte, PA

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby swampflower » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:22 pm

Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: My Open Message to Gyatrul Rinpoche

Postby Grigoris » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:36 pm

Last edited by Grigoris on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde


Return to “Nyingma”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests