Buddhism and Eternalism

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Re: Buddhism and Eternalism

Postby Son of Buddha » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:57 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:where in the sutras does it say to identify them as sutras by the 4 dharma seals????
Nowhere and everywhere. They are the identifying characteristics of Buddhadharma. I apply them to all teachings in order to ascertain if they are Buddharma. That and the fact that they are free of the four extremes.
note you know everything you listed is what abides in samsarasan dont you????
none of those things actually has anything to do with the Buddha whatsoever example the Buddha is not impermanant(pali canon even states he teaches the path to immortality)impermanace itself is rooted in samsarasan.
non self is the tainted ego self again this is samsarasan the Buddha doesnt have a tainted ego self.
suffering again has to do with samsarasan it is not of the Buddha(Buddha doesnt suffer)
Yes, well, you have totally missed my point. You present a view. I analyse it based on the criteria of... If it satisfies the criteria then I am cool with it. If not, then...
the Buddha goes beyond the 4 dharma seals in the mahaparinirvana sutra(tathagatagarbha sutras)
The people that wrote the Mahaparinirvana Sutra contradicted elements of the Four Dharma Seals. As I said before: I believe they can be salvaged through the application of Madhyamaka reasoning (revising, as Malcolm called it).
:namaste:


as the Lotus sutra states the 4 dharma seals were provisional,also they were never taught to be a way to determine what is a true sutra(word of the buddha) this was made up by its followers.

how did the Nirvana sutra contradict the elements of the 4 dharma seals???
nonself is the end to the tainted self this is what the Nirvana sutra teaches,it goes beyond it in that the Buddha has a fixed true self(in Thervadan it is taught the Buddha is the teacher of the deathless/imortality,which is why the 4th truth is PERMANENT)

lets look at impermance sir,the tainted self and all of samsarasan is IMPERMANENT which is what the Nirvana sutra teaches,it goes beyond it by stateing the the Buddha is PERMANENT,impermanance was ALWAYS in relation to samsarasan and tainted self NOT the Buddha,how can we prove this??the 4th noble truth is PROOF of this,when it states the Buddha has PERMANETLY given up the 3 poisons(greed/anger/ignorance) this ruins the idea of adding the Buddha to impermanace and shows that impermance was meant for what is in samsarasan.
how is the dharma seal of suffering not in the nirvana sutra???the sutra (all including the pali canon states the Buddha does not suffer) so again sir 4th noble truth the Buddha PERMANTLY does not suffer.

like I said the 3/4 dharma seals are contained in the nirvana sutra,the Nirvana sutra just discribes them and goes beyond them.(note nothing the Nirvana sutra says is really new at all simply reading the definition of the 4 noble truths in the pali canon shows that impermanance belongs to those in samsarasan and the Buddha is beyond impermanace when he PERMANTLY ends death/rebirth/and the 3 poisons(I can provide the suttas from the Majjhima nikaya if you like? :namaste:
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Re: Buddhism and Eternalism

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:58 am

Because after realising Nirvana all dualism ends. It's that simple really. True or false, permanent or impermanent, samsara or Nirvana, etc... all dualisms lose their meaning.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism and Eternalism

Postby Son of Buddha » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Because after realising Nirvana all dualism ends. It's that simple really. True or false, permanent or impermanent, samsara or Nirvana, etc... all dualisms lose their meaning.
:namaste:


yes even existing and not existing the dualism loses its meaning.(Lotus sutra) :namaste:

But you have to understand something sir WORDS themselves are dualitsic the very purpose of words is to seperate one meaning from anouther,to seperate one object from anouther object words themselves are DUALISTIC.

which is why the Lotus sutra and Lankavatara sutra teaches even our words cannot show what enlightenement is.which is why the Lotus sutra states No tainted being can discribe the LAW or understand the LAW that only Buddhas can know it.(and when you know it YOU wont exist only the Buddha will but then again I just used the word EXIST which is dualism in itself and cannot fully denote the truth of the higher mind)
:namaste:
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Re: Buddhism and Eternalism

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:31 pm

Now who is arguing against the veracity of Sutta/Sutra? ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Buddhism and Eternalism

Postby Son of Buddha » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:49 am

gregkavarnos wrote:Now who is arguing against the veracity of Sutta/Sutra? ;)



two tainted selfs(no disrespect intended)

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