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Just War and Buddhism - Dhamma Wheel

Just War and Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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clw_uk
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Just War and Buddhism

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:03 am

Hello

In Christianity there is the concept of just war, a similar concept also exists in Islam


I wondered if such a concept could also exist in Buddhism, for example during WW2 would Buddhists or Buddhist countries be justified in going to war with Nazi Germany?
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Goofaholix
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:34 am


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clw_uk
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:41 am

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bodom
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby bodom » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:04 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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cooran
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby cooran » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:06 am

Hello all,

Worth considering:

“Just War” is an Oxymoron by Santikaro Bhikkhu - on behalf of BPF’s Dharma Council - March 2003
The pervasive conditioning of our culture leads people to ask variations of the question, “What is the Buddhist position on “Just War”? The answer is simple, bewilderingly simple for many.
There is no Buddhist position or doctrine of “Just War.” None. Zero. “Just War” makes no sense in a tradition dedicated to moral decency, non-harming, compassion, and wisdom.
>…………snip……………..<
War happens. It is never desirable or beneficial. Too many innocents die, property is wasted, hatreds and feuds are prolonged, and we accustom ourselves to beastly behavior. There is no place in the Buddhist concept of “nobility” for war. It is never morally legitimate. It isn’t even a “necessary evil.” It is merely the bad policy of shortsighted, cowardly, selfish, and ill-informed leadership.
http://www.liberationpark.org/bpf/just-war-oxy.htm

Getting the Message by Thanissaro Bhikkhu So the Buddha's position on the precepts was uncompromising and clear. If you want to follow his teachings, there's absolutely no room for killing, stealing, or lying, period. However, in our current climate of terrorism and counter-terrorism — where governments have claimed that it's their moral duty to lie, kill, and torture in order to prevent others from lying, killing, and torturing — a number of Buddhist teachers have joined in the effort, trying to find evidence that there were some occasions, at least, where the Buddha would condone killing or offer a rationale for a just war. Exactly why they would want to do this is up to them to say, but there's a need to examine their arguments in order to set the record straight. The Buddha never taught a theory of just war; no decision to wage war can legitimately be traced to his teachings; no war veteran has ever had to agonize over memories of the people he killed because the Buddha said that war was okay. These facts are among the glories of the Buddhist tradition, and it's important for the human race that they not be muddied in an effort to recast the Buddha in our own less than glorious image.
Because the Pali Canon is such an unpromising place to look for the justification of killing, most of the arguments for a Buddhist theory of just war look elsewhere for their evidence, citing the words and behavior of people they take as surrogates for the Buddha.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ssage.html

Violence and Disruption in Society - A Study of the Early Buddhist Texts by Elizabeth J. Harris
>.......snip......<
The question of political, defensive violence, however, must be mentioned here. Can violence be justified in a situation where the state needs to defend its citizens against external and internal threats? Is this a situation in which violence is not condemned? The texts suggest Buddhism would here insist on discrimination. The Cakkavatti Sihanada Sutta gives this advice to the righteous king:

This, dear son, that you, leaning on the Dhamma, honoring, respecting and revering it, doing homage to it, hallowing it, being yourself a Dhamma-banner, a Dhamma-signal, having the Dhamma as your master, should provide the right watch, ward and protection for your own folk, for the army, for the nobles, for vassals and brahmans and householders, for town and country dwellers, for the religious world and for beasts and birds.[40]
This passage implies that the need for an army and consequently for the use of force in defense is accepted as a worldly necessity. But the picture which emerges is not glorification of the "just" war but an appeal for war and violence to be seen against a higher set of values.
>...............................<
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el392.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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clw_uk
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:07 am

Is it moral then to have just sat back and watched the holocaust get even worse (if we didnt get involved)?





Is it moral to let this continue because of what we think is right?
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bodom
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby bodom » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:18 am

A 'RIGHTEOUS WAR' IN BUDDHISM?
by PD. Premasiri

http://www.profpremasiri.com/Papers/PDF ... ddhism.pdf

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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clw_uk
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:22 am

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Goofaholix
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:45 am


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clw_uk
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:51 am

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MJS
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby MJS » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:53 am

Fighting and killing is extremely bad karma. That said if I was in a situation such as WW2 I would probably fight/kill to protect innocents and accept that my choice is causing extremely bad kamma for myself which would result in a pretty crappy rebirth, however to protect the victims I would accept the consequences of my actions because I value others before thinking selfishly about my own kamma and resultant rebirth.

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Goofaholix
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:20 am


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:57 am


MJS
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby MJS » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:44 pm

I would

Nikaya35
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Nikaya35 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:55 pm

Most people in America and Europe are naive about buddhism. In the second world war
Zen masters in Japan support the emperor cause to conquer and exterminate non japanese people . That's one example of the betrayal of the dharma principles . In the old tibet buddhists sects fight with each other often .
Some extremists buddhists in Sir lanka persecute christians destroy churches and other minorities .

Nikaya35
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Nikaya35 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:19 pm

When reading the Nikayas is very clear that the Budhha teachings is against war killing etc but in the history of buddhism some people claiming to be buddhists commit atrocities like killing people etc . That's very sad that happened and probably will continue to happen.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:25 pm

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Goofaholix
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:31 pm


Anicca
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Anicca » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:56 pm

The Buddha allows monks to dis-robe and re-robe. An example of social action, a monk may dis-robe, work for money for a hospital, school etc., spend that money, then re-robe. Once dis-robed, they are not bound by monk's rules - nor are they allowed the moniker of "monk".
A lay-buddhist could set aside their "buddhist" moniker, do whatever "worldly aspirations" they like such as fighting a war, but they would no longer have the distinction of being Buddhist.
In no way IMHO can a Buddhist - lay or otherwise - kill another human. Put aside the moniker to do non-Buddhist things.

We all inherit our kamma regardless of monikers.

metta

edit to fix spelling and add: "Just wars" have no place in Buddhism.

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Just War and Buddhism

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:31 am



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