Human reborn as Human

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Kenshou
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby Kenshou » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:34 am

Well yeah, just talking about prediction in general, regardless of weather that is what tarot cards were initially meant for.

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clw_uk
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:36 am

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Kenshou
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby Kenshou » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:41 am

I'm not saying it makes any sense! But people do try to do it, and that's all I'm addressing.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby nobody12345 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:41 am

@clw-uk.
Yes, you are absolutely correct to consider magic as a strong attachment to superstition.
That's the best attitude when it comes to magic because it is not beneficial.
And regarding the two dimensions I saw, I am afraid I rather not say.
All I am going to say is one among the two, I encountered it multiple times.
And regarding residents of the other realms, I am standing by my comment that they are delusional because they have long life span.
And I am standing by my comment that they can bring intense joy for the medium and it certainly develops craving/attachment.
People who had no encounter hardly believe and that is a good thing.
It is not beneficial and I wish all the other people (especially young ones) have same attitude like you, clw-uk.
In Metta.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:47 am

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby nobody12345 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:51 am

My point is not about to discuss whether magic is working or not.
My point is about the fact that it is not beneficial especially when it comes to channeling to devas or the other realms.
And from what I observed from the channeling in general is, spiritual beings are many times lying or delusional or both.
Many of beings believe they are something else when clearly they are not.
In other words, they are either liars or delusional and both of them are like reserved ticket for lower rebirth so human realm will not likely experience birth rate drop.
That was my whole point.
In Metta.
Last edited by nobody12345 on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:56 am

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son of dhamma
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby son of dhamma » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:00 am

If one doesn't "believe" in beings of other planes such as the devas and asuras, then why does one ask about personal experiences--only to discredit them as self-delusion? That, in itself, is a stronger self-delusion; to assume that others are deluded.
If one doesn't find that magic isn't real, and declares so, then it is obvious to anyone who is truly acquainted with magical power that this person has never grasped it clearly.
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:05 am

Last edited by clw_uk on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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nobody12345
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby nobody12345 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:16 am

As long as one has arrived on the path of Dhamma, all is good.
It doesn't matter whatever belief one had.
Someone came from Christianity to Dhamma, I say it's good.
Someone came from agnostic to Dhamma, I say it's good.
Someone came from Hinduism to Dhamma, I say it's good.
Someone came from materialism to Dhamma, I say it's good.
Someone came from whatever practice to Dhamma, I say it's good.
As long as we have found the correct path, after many wonderings of Samsara, it's all good.
We should rejoice because it's a rare to have a chance to hear Dhamma and came to the correct path.
In Metta.
:anjali:
Last edited by nobody12345 on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby son of dhamma » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:17 am

Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:18 am

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:21 am

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby son of dhamma » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:40 am

Spells are not structures of "wish-thinking", that is bland ignorance.
Despite that you associate it with superstition or Wicca, it isn't related to liberation. Of course, the Buddha didn't teach us magic of any kind, especially not sorcery. He didn't because it isn't the Way to the Cessation of Suffering.
However it is still a practical and real dimension of existence that is helpful to recognize, and for some people helpful to practice also. For others, still, there is a certain degree of necessity--or the alternative for them is to become a monk or nun, which is often much less practical.
Magic is simply a general term for one of the natural arts, a thing of phenomenological law that involves symbols, mechanisms of symbols, layers of these mechanisms, or sometimes just the implications of the symbols themselves causes these forces to work. It is a very fine mechanical art-form, and exponentially delicate. It isn't confined to spirits, to animals, or to being of others planes. Representing, organizing, connecting, associating, and patterning these symbols in certain constructs and in various formats is a firm method of employing various supernormal forces (this is not confined to spirits) to enact certain agendas.
It isn't wish-thinking, it is a scientific field that is so very delicate as to become more precise the further it is understood. It also has everything to do with the forces allowing the enabling of the magic. It certainly cannot be discredited by anyone who decides to call it something perverse in stead of acknowledging an obvious misunderstanding of its nature, calling it this or that derogatorily. But with all things of sacredness, there is either attentive inquisition or blind disfavor.
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:54 am

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby son of dhamma » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:10 am

Obviously it would be futile for me to try to prove through words that magic as a phenomenological art of natural law is real. I would have to show you personally--which is impractical--or you'd have to investigate it with attentive inquiry for yourself.
"Of course they are, want something to be true and somehow you change reality to suite your desires..."
I tried to point out that spells do not behave this way in the slightest--THAT is indeed superstition. I'm not talking about religion, I'm talking about natural forces.
Superstition surrounds everyone and coats everything that we study. There is a real magic beneath the age-old layers of superstition. I'm talking about something that does not lead to dukkha, as I explained with, "a practical and real dimension of existence that is helpful to recognize, and for some people helpful to practice also. For others, still, there is a certain degree of necessity--or the alternative for them is to become a monk or nun, which is often much less practical." I would advise that one doesn't label certain studies as leading to dukkha so haphazardly as this.

Just because the infallible supremacy of the University doesn't recognize this incredibly delicate scientific field doesn't mean that it is absolutely moot. The University is not a miraculous place where all definite knowledge is stored. I claim that there is a science to magic, but I specified that it is "so very delicate as to become more precise the further it is understood." It requires highly personal inquiry. Of course you can record, and work with partners, but the high delicacy and increasing preciseness proves it to be an unconventional science. But it is a much more rewarding science than evolutionary theorizing, carbon-dating, or astronomy, for instance.
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby son of dhamma » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:14 am

Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

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clw_uk
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:20 am

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:26 am

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Re: Human reborn as Human

Postby son of dhamma » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:42 am

Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.


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