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Levels of accomplishment? - Dhamma Wheel

Levels of accomplishment?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:50 pm

In Mahayana there are bhumis, or levels of attainment. In Theravada is there any such system?

Thanks,
Drolma


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retrofuturist
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:58 pm

Greetings Drolma,

The Noble Ones are categorised as follows...

Arahant - final destruction of ignorance, no more becoming
Non-Returner - a trace of craving results in becoming, but never again to the human realm
Once-Returner - born once more, before attaining arahantship
Stream-Entrant - maximum of 7 lifetimes to go but the destination is assured

Somewhere, venerable Dhammanando has an excellent table that shows what fetters are eradicated at each stage. Hopefully he sees this thread and can provide you a link to it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 pm

Thank you Retro :)

I couldn't help but notice that full buddhahood was missing from the list...

How is it different from an Arahant? Is the difference that a Buddha will teach?

Thanks,
Drolma


Element

Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Element » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:36 pm

There are many distinctions & synonym in Theravada regarding these two words.

However, generally Buddha is self-enlightened with no teacher whilst an arahant is help-enlightened because they are guided by the Buddha's teaching.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:39 pm

Greetings Drolma,

In the fourfold scheme of the Noble Sangha (eightfold if you wish to distinguish between bhikkhus and bhikkunis)... the Buddha is classified alongside the arahants. He is often referred to as "The Arahant". What is true of the arahant is true of the Buddha... it just happens also to be that the Buddha both created a dispensation, and had developed his faculties far beyond the minimal level required for the cessation of suffering.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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kc2dpt
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:45 am

sotapanna eradicates:
self-identification views (sakkaya-ditthi)
uncertainty (vicikiccha)
grasping at precepts and practices (silabbata-paramasa)

sakadagami eradicates those three and significantly weakens:
sensual passion (kama-raga)
resistance (vyapada)

anagami eradicates those five

arahant eradicates those five plus eradicates:
passion for form (rupa-raga)
passion for formless phenomena (arupa-raga)
conceit (mana)
restlessness (uddhacca)
unawareness (avijja)

Those are the ten fetters (samyojana) which bind one to the cycle of birth and death.
- Peter


thecap
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby thecap » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:12 am

Hi Peter

Thank you for the list.

resistance (vyapada) ... google says vyapada is ill-will/hatred.

But what about having resistance like Gandhi against someone who has ill-will/hatred?

"Vive la Résistance!" ;)

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kc2dpt
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:47 am

What about it?
- Peter


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retrofuturist
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:51 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dhammanando
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:22 am

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retrofuturist
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:36 am

Greetings venerable Dhammanando,

Do you know where the explanation for the eradication of "envy" and "avarice" as a component of stream-entry originates?

I expected to see Doubt and Wrong View in the list, but am more familiar with Silabbatupadana (attachment to rites and rituals) appearing as the third feature of stream-entry.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dhammanando
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:16 am


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gavesako
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby gavesako » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:23 am

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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retrofuturist
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:28 am

Thank you venerable Dhammanando.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:51 pm

Thank you :namaste:


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Cittasanto
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:30 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:17 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:08 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:57 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:07 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.


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