Dzogchen, Buddhism and culture

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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby JKhedrup » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:14 am

Have had the morning free and I've been checking out Chogyal Namkhai Norbu on youtube.

In one particular segment he mentions that Dzogchen Guru Yoga is enough, but since many cannot remain in such a state all the time,
there are other, secondary practices. These are useful since we are in a state of duality. (Dzogchen Meditation)

To me it is interesting while the Dzogchen that CNN presents is stated as not being particularily connected with Buddhism or Bon, CNN states in numerous segments
the importance of Tibetan culture. "I am Tibetan my culture is important to me, I must save my culture". (clip from My Reincarnation)

So I think that while the teachings are presented in this sort of containerless form, ChNN does see tremendous value in traditions as preserved in Tibet.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby T. Chokyi » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:23 am

JKhedrup wrote:Have had the morning free and I've been checking out Chogyal Namkhai Norbu on youtube.

Hi JKhedrup,

Glad to see you here, last time we saw each other we were talking about a lap top computer for you, when you were in Dharamsala India beginning your translator course.... but that was on another board.. I'll private DM you... :tongue:

soooo.... CHNN has a broadcast today, I think it starts in something like 10 mins. If you have time, maybe you'd like to hear him live:

The schedule is like this:

Tokyo Retreat June 1-5, 2012
"The Upadesha on the total Behavior of Equal Taste"
OPEN WEBCAST
Tokyo's time: GMT+9

Schedule of the Retreat:
June 1, 2012
6:30 pm-8:30 pm Dzogchen Teaching

Tokyo (Japan) Friday, June 1, 2012 at 6:30:00 PM JST UTC+9 hours
Eastern Time (U.S.A.) Friday, June 1, 2012 at 5:30:00 AM EDT UTC-4 hours


June 2, 2012
10:00 am-12:00pm Dzogchen Teaching

June 3, 2012
10:00 am-12:00pm Dzogchen Teaching

June 4, 2012
10:00 am-12:00pm Dzogchen Teaching

4:00 pm-6:00pm Ganapuja

June 5, 2012
10:00 am-12:00pm Dzogchen Teaching

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=248
In other words you'd have to convert the times from the Japan time to time where you are.

He's on right now:
http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/index.php
:thumbsup:
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:29 am

JKhedrup wrote:H
So I think that while the teachings are presented in this sort of containerless form, ChNN does see tremendous value in traditions as preserved in Tibet.


The value without clinging, understood in nondual, not in extremes.
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Sönam » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:39 am

JKhedrup wrote:...
"I am Tibetan my culture is important to me, I must save my culture". (clip from My Reincarnation)



That is Rinpoche's karma, he is born Tibetan ... he certainly should do that. Same as our culture is important for us, we must save our culture.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:05 am

This means there is "Dharmakaya" - master, who is "clinging" due to his karma?

The importance of the teaching to keep them safe is so so clear!

While grasping to Tibetan nationality.....Namkhay Norbu Rinpoche is realised nature! like the totality of the mirror and its' reflections, no mirror is grasping to reflections of its own being. No mirror is throwing 'out' what it does not prefer due to emotional preferences.

Prajna is discerning what is awakening and protect the Dharma qualities, jewel-Dharma.

Namkhay Norbu Rinpoche = Buddha =awaken.
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Andrew108 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:38 am

JKhedrup wrote:In one particular segment he mentions that Dzogchen Guru Yoga is enough, but since many cannot remain in such a state all the time,
there are other, secondary practices. These are useful since we are in a state of duality. (Dzogchen Meditation)

To me it is interesting while the Dzogchen that CNN presents is stated as not being particularily connected with Buddhism or Bon, CNN states in numerous segments
the importance of Tibetan culture. "I am Tibetan my culture is important to me, I must save my culture". (clip from My Reincarnation)

So I think that while the teachings are presented in this sort of containerless form, ChNN does see tremendous value in traditions as preserved in Tibet.

Nice photo in your signature. Umm yes institutions have a relative importance to play - just like ink and paper. But the meaning of the teachings is not institutionalized. ChNN has often said that one should not be conditioned by Dzogchen. Dzogchen is about overcoming limitations. But of course we have to work with relative circumstances. But we shouldn't have the need to think of ourselves as only Dzogchen practitioners.
As an aside - I wish I had started with the Kunjed Gyalpo as a base - it would have made Dzogchen much clearer initially. It would have also meant spending less time debating with Malcolm. You can find experienced Dzogchen practitioners making statements here from the point of view of the Kunjed Gyalpo - it might seem that they are dismissive of Buddhism. But it's the Kunjed Gyalpo talking.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:48 am

"When the notions of real and unreal
are absent from before the mind,
then, there is no other possibility,
but to rest in total peace, beyond concepts".
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Matylda » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:14 pm

muni wrote:This means there is "Dharmakaya" - master, who is "clinging" due to his karma?


So is dharmakaya karma, according to the above?
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:35 pm

Matylda wrote:
muni wrote:This means there is "Dharmakaya" - master, who is "clinging" due to his karma?


So is dharmakaya, according to the above?



Keep it by the totality of the mirror.
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:49 pm

muni wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:[You are speaking from the POV of mind as well. And there's nothing wrong with that, so don't pretend there is.

Realize that mind is the only instrument you have to gauge, measure and judge. Every expression of acceptance or rejection is mind, even rejecting the sharing of ideas. You do not reside beyond mind.



The dog is free to chase behind its tail without rejecting or accepting its tail.

All too tricky for me. I am a simple soul. I know nothing about any of that.

:namaste:
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby T. Chokyi » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:59 pm

Sönam wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:...
"I am Tibetan my culture is important to me, I must save my culture". (clip from My Reincarnation)



That is Rinpoche's karma, he is born Tibetan ... he certainly should do that. Same as our culture is important for us, we must save our culture.

Sönam
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:01 pm

Simon E. wrote:
muni wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:[You are speaking from the POV of mind as well. And there's nothing wrong with that, so don't pretend there is.

Realize that mind is the only instrument you have to gauge, measure and judge. Every expression of acceptance or rejection is mind, even rejecting the sharing of ideas. You do not reside beyond mind.



The dog is free to chase behind its tail without rejecting or accepting its tail.

All too tricky for me. I am a simple soul. I know nothing about any of that.

:namaste:


"When the notions of real and unreal
are absent from before the mind,
then, there is no other possibility,
but to rest in total peace, beyond concepts".

Then there are no thoughts to chase and by this no concepts "me-you" an no rejection or acception.
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:07 pm

Right ..I'll bear that in mind.

:namaste:
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby dharmagoat » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:47 pm

:smile:
May all beings be happy
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:51 pm

;)
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby Matylda » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:36 pm

muni wrote:
Matylda wrote:
muni wrote:This means there is "Dharmakaya" - master, who is "clinging" due to his karma?


So is dharmakaya, according to the above?



Keep it by the totality of the mirror.


So what do you mean by this? Could you explain for me, please?
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:31 pm

"Samsara is the tendency to find fault with others". Naropa

"In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true".
Buddha

"Equanimity means feeling neither hatred for enemies nor attachment to loved ones, but instead, feeling love and compassion for all beings equally".
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby asunthatneversets » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:36 pm

muni wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:[You are speaking from the POV of mind as well. And there's nothing wrong with that, so don't pretend there is.

Realize that mind is the only instrument you have to gauge, measure and judge. Every expression of acceptance or rejection is mind, even rejecting the sharing of ideas. You do not reside beyond mind.



The dog is free to chase behind its tail without rejecting or accepting its tail.


My parents dog tries to sneak around and eat cat sh*t out of the litter box whenever he can get away with it.
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby asunthatneversets » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:55 pm

muni wrote:"Samsara is the tendency to find fault with others". Naropa

"In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true".
Buddha

"Equanimity means feeling neither hatred for enemies nor attachment to loved ones, but instead, feeling love and compassion for all beings equally".


While you, yourself, are finding fault with others for finding fault with others.
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Re: Institutional Buddhism

Postby muni » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:07 pm

asunthatneversets wrote:
muni wrote:"Samsara is the tendency to find fault with others". Naropa

"In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true".
Buddha

"Equanimity means feeling neither hatred for enemies nor attachment to loved ones, but instead, feeling love and compassion for all beings equally".


While you, yourself, are finding fault with others for finding fault with others.


I see that is about the dog tail. Please it is exactly that what keeps it going on: the object-subject confusion which cannot maintain nondual contemplation. Me and you separation.

Sorry dear, no wrong "you". It is only my mistake.
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