username wrote:Rinpoche explained these a couple of days ago. There are two key words. He siad if someone comes to me and is interested in Dzogchen but has another religion that means he has capacity for Dzogchen so I WELCOME them and give Dzogchen teachings. Then they can START like this. Also we know rinpoche says after DI which is beyond 9 yanas, for practice the MINIMUM is ATI Guru Yoga in it's various forms or just the short form. Meanwhile as a BEGINNER you can still have ecelectic beliefs like some here are Hindus or worship Jehova or God the father refusing emptiness. Or you can carry on doing your previous hippy dippy yoga of Jesus Rinpoche or Scientology of aliens or whatever. It is really the same with all rinpoches. They do not quizz beginners saying now we need an inquisition to purify you of your current contradictory beliefs. To me most Tibetan lamas' large teachings' audiences are like the cafe in the desert in Star Wars of various types of aliens, all sorts of people.
Yes, that's pretty much what I think too, with one exception. Not all Rinpoches will give you DI if you are not a Buddhist. Some not even if you are a Buddhist and haven't completed the preliminaries.
People take their time. Some never fully abandon contradictory beliefs to Dzogchen and/or buddhism as we see in all subforums here. So ChNNR is the same as all dharma teachers saying ALL ARE WELCOME. But you can't complete the four visions if for example you dismiss emptiness in favor if a bearded god and his son or other stories as inherently existing. You just won't get to those advanced results. Also nevermind great Tibetan masters in history, even Padma and Tsogyal meditated for decades despite being nirmanakays so chances are if you want any serious advanced Dzogche results you have to do one or more of the upper 3 yogas as well as serious retreat time of occasional week or more every year or at least every few years at the very least in Yangti as rinpoche has said for beginning on the advanced stages and sameif wanting the four visions from Longde or Mengagde.
Well, I think you are painting Christians in a very simplistic manner. But in general terms I agree with what you are saying. This doesn't mean I can trace it all to ChNN teachings, but I personally agree.
Also Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche and others sometimes gave DI to a mix of people, buddhist and non, too when they judged capacity or karmic connection being present. But all these are just the start or at least making a connection for future. If however you are serious then you have to do one or more of the upper 3 yogas and ChNNR says the minimum for beginners or those not serious about advanced results is the short ATI guru yoga as well as being non distracted (present or even better in instant presence) and integrated as much as possible in daily life and meditation.
Recognizing the natural state is the start, even if for a very brief moment. Not DI by itself, but recognizing our real nature and move on from there. If you receive DI and don't recognize the natural state, it won't be much helpful. Semde methods are very good for such effect.
So considering my long points above I don't see why this mega argument on DZOGCHEN & BUDDHISM is dragging on. No two people are having the same positions here and most speaking for Rinpoche in error are contradicting their earlier positions.
Can you elaborate? Because I don't see where are the contradictions. Are you saying Malcom is in contradiction with his earlier position from some time ago? He said himself that he changed his mind and explained why. I also thought one had to be a Buddhist to practice Dzogchen. Now I find it helpful as long as it doesn't get in the way of Dzogchen practice.
Also on Dzogchen and Buddhism: ChNNR says keep your Buddhist (label, true) and Dzogchenpa (also label!) secret as like the lynching mobs of intimidator Chinese Cultural revolutionaries who included samaya breaker informants who switched sides, the same could happen anywhere again as we do not know so do not advertise your face as Buddhist or Dzogchenpa which is not good anyway.
That's generally a good advice. But you see, if we were to keep it that secret, then it would be better to shut down this board no?
In my life outside of here, very few close people know I'm a Buddhist and only my wife knows I practice Dzogchen. Seems secret enough for you?
(BTW Prophecies say Dzogchen will spread like wildfire in the degenrate era globally but for a short time only before being snuffed out in the descent into final long deep Kaliyuga's last phase before the next buddah Maitreya who starts the stages of wheel turning giving his protection for Dzogchen to reappear which in Mitreya's particular cycle eventually will after his parinirvana just like Shakyamuni).
I'm not sure, but I thought Malcom once said Dzogchen wouldn't vanish. I don't know much about prophecies though.
Rinpoche also often says how his students do not listen.
Unfortunately. With so many retreats, webcasts, books and booklets this is really awkward.
Once he said I explained do not go on the beach and "show off (his usual word)" to the public look I am Dzogchenpa doing Yantra yoga, then we went to the beach on another day in the same retreat and in front of public one person started showing off Yantra yoga. He says the same for not doing mudras in restaurants. Or shrines in your homes, should be hidden or just a white Ah calligraphy. Also he says certain things we do wrong, like premature thogal or attachment to visions or showing off etc (the usual), can (not always though) block that capacity in this lifetime. Once he said if you do all this for showing off your face to the world that look I am yogi or Dzogchenpa, don't expect results, you already got your result of merit for self advertisement. That is what he says to people who shout to the world: "I am a Dzogchnepa and I am OK - I sleep all night and distracted all day".
Very wise advice and I for one am very happy that you know it so well. No irony here or anything of the sort. It's very nice to read someone actually saying what ChNN says. ChNN is not the only one giving it. I think it is pretty widespread. Even HHDL addressed this issue. Yet, when you go to some Dharma centers more often than not you find parades of "tibetanized" westerners, dressing funny, acting funny, eating funny, talking funny... and in the end it is not funny at all.
Don't worry about that vase.
The one you're about to break.
Or something, right? If I remember right, it's from the movie The Matrix when Neo was speaking with the Oracle.
A bit cheesy, but gave me a good laugh still.