The Hutuktu Kung Ka

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The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby greentreee » Sat May 26, 2012 6:59 pm

i just have a general question.

Does anyone have any information regarding this individual's name? The Hutuktu Kung Ka.

i stumbled upon it this morning, while reading about a Ch'an Master, that was recognized by the person in question. i mainly ask since my google search rendered little help, so any help would be great.
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby kirtu » Sun May 27, 2012 4:20 am

greentreee wrote:i just have a general question.

Does anyone have any information regarding this individual's name? The Hutuktu Kung Ka.

i stumbled upon it this morning, while reading about a Ch'an Master, that was recognized by the person in question. i mainly ask since my google search rendered little help, so any help would be great.


Hutuktu is a Mongolian term for tulku.

Kirt
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby greentreee » Mon May 28, 2012 1:50 pm

thanks, i kind of got that part already. i'm just curious if there's any records. i understand the particular time period, and the subsequent events after. so, it maybe be very difficult to find any traces of the individual's name, as well as, where the individual was within the kagyu, (white sect) order. again i am just curious if anyone around here had any lineage knowledge.
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby kirtu » Mon May 28, 2012 2:49 pm

greentreee wrote:i just have a general question.

Does anyone have any information regarding this individual's name? The Hutuktu Kung Ka.

i stumbled upon it this morning, while reading about a Ch'an Master, that was recognized by the person in question. i mainly ask since my google search rendered little help, so any help would be great.


Which Ch'an master and what time period? Most of the history of spiritual interaction from the fall of the Ching Empire through the Cultural Revolution has been lost (or perhaps not written at all). Then again it may exist in some form in Chinese in Taiwan, Singapore or Malaysia. Sometimes old photos can be unearthed (or via a deep search).

But Mongolian and esp. Inner Mongolian lineages were devastated. It looks like we have lost Inner Mongolian lineages for real.

Kirt
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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby greentreee » Mon May 28, 2012 2:59 pm

kirtu wrote:
greentreee wrote:i just have a general question.

Does anyone have any information regarding this individual's name? The Hutuktu Kung Ka.

i stumbled upon it this morning, while reading about a Ch'an Master, that was recognized by the person in question. i mainly ask since my google search rendered little help, so any help would be great.


Which Ch'an master and what time period? Most of the history of spiritual interaction from the fall of the Ching Empire through the Cultural Revolution has been lost (or perhaps not written at all). Then again it may exist in some form in Chinese in Taiwan, Singapore or Malaysia. Sometimes old photos can be unearthed (or via a deep search).

But Mongolian and esp. Inner Mongolian lineages were devastated. It looks like we have lost Inner Mongolian lineages for real.

Kirt


hi,

The Ch'an Master is Master Nan Huai Chin (Jin). There is some info on the web regarding him, but not very much. I'll just give you the quote from the particular text.

in the section About the Master :

"In 1945, he left Mount O-Mei and traveled to Tibet to learn from the masters of Esoteric Buddhism. The Hutuktu (Living Buddha) Kung Ka of the White Sect at last verified him as a master and gave him the official title of esoteric Master." from Grass Mountain: A Seven Day Intensive in Ch'an Training With Master Nan Huai- Chin Translated by Margaret Yuan & Janis Walker isbn 0877286124

hope this helps.
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"if air can be conditioned,
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby kirtu » Mon May 28, 2012 3:29 pm

greentreee wrote:
kirtu wrote:
greentreee wrote:i just have a general question.

Does anyone have any information regarding this individual's name? The Hutuktu Kung Ka.

i stumbled upon it this morning, while reading about a Ch'an Master, that was recognized by the person in question. i mainly ask since my google search rendered little help, so any help would be great.


Which Ch'an master and what time period? Most of the history of spiritual interaction from the fall of the Ching Empire through the Cultural Revolution has been lost (or perhaps not written at all). Then again it may exist in some form in Chinese in Taiwan, Singapore or Malaysia. Sometimes old photos can be unearthed (or via a deep search).

But Mongolian and esp. Inner Mongolian lineages were devastated. It looks like we have lost Inner Mongolian lineages for real.

Kirt


hi,

The Ch'an Master is Master Nan Huai Chin (Jin). There is some info on the web regarding him, but not very much. I'll just give you the quote from the particular text.

in the section About the Master :

"In 1945, he left Mount O-Mei and traveled to Tibet to learn from the masters of Esoteric Buddhism. The Hutuktu (Living Buddha) Kung Ka of the White Sect at last verified him as a master and gave him the official title of esoteric Master." from Grass Mountain: A Seven Day Intensive in Ch'an Training With Master Nan Huai- Chin Translated by Margaret Yuan & Janis Walker isbn 0877286124

hope this helps.


So this is just be the Chinese vocabulary into English describing the event. Without some scholar of the period that vocabulary tends to obscure rather than illuminate. But terms like the "White Sect" should be stable in the writing of the period and you might be able to trace that to a more widely understood entity (so to a set of monasteries or lineage).

I've seen this before but didn't pay much attention to it. Porter's book (which I no longer have) - I think this one is "Road to Heaven" where Porter and a friend go looking for Buddhist hermits in China - may be helpful with the meeting between the two nuns and esp. the Vajrayana Chinese nun. I would bet that the Chinese vocabulary is more reflective of the transmission of Vajrayana in China which seems more Kagyu based in terms of lineage.

Kirt
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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby greentreee » Mon May 28, 2012 4:03 pm

well, thanks!

...

and after a little search from the rest of his book that i have, i found a name, perhaps more understandable ... Gonka Rinpoche. which is in the introduction to Master Nan, in the book Diamond Sutra Explained by Mastern Nan Huai Chin Translated by Hue En (Pia Giammasi) 0971656126

i'll see what sort of results i get from a search now.

:thanks: again.

*edit, upon goggling gonka rinpoche, i found myself here
viewtopic.php?f=77&t=3354

going in circles ... :D
scratching thick hair'd head,
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"

"greentreee"
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby kirtu » Mon May 28, 2012 4:48 pm

greentreee wrote:well, thanks!

...

and after a little search from the rest of his book that i have, i found a name, perhaps more understandable ... Gonka Rinpoche. which is in the introduction to Master Nan, in the book Diamond Sutra Explained by Mastern Nan Huai Chin Translated by Hue En (Pia Giammasi) 0971656126

i'll see what sort of results i get from a search now.

:thanks: again.

*edit, upon goggling gonka rinpoche, i found myself here
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=3354

going in circles ... :D


Not necessarily circles - longjie's posts in that thread should be very useful.

Also Nan Huai-Chin is still alive! Theoretically you could write him and get an explanation although more details almost certainly exist in Chinese. So actually the history is not yet lost.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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kirtu
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Re: The Hutuktu Kung Ka

Postby greentreee » Mon May 28, 2012 6:14 pm

kirtu wrote:
greentreee wrote:well, thanks!

...

and after a little search from the rest of his book that i have, i found a name, perhaps more understandable ... Gonka Rinpoche. which is in the introduction to Master Nan, in the book Diamond Sutra Explained by Mastern Nan Huai Chin Translated by Hue En (Pia Giammasi) 0971656126

i'll see what sort of results i get from a search now.

:thanks: again.

*edit, upon goggling gonka rinpoche, i found myself here
viewtopic.php?f=77&t=3354

going in circles ... :D


Not necessarily circles - longjie's posts in that thread should be very useful.

Also Nan Huai-Chin is still alive! Theoretically you could write him and get an explanation although more details almost certainly exist in Chinese. So actually the history is not yet lost.

Kirt


well, i meant circles in the sense that i googled Gonka Rinpoche, and cycled thru a couple sites that led me back to dharmawheel , the post i linked above. not circles in the sense that i wasn't getting anywhere.
i am aware that he's still alive as well, at least from what i've read on the net. i have some family members in china actually, i'm currently debating with myself if i should ask them to bring me back a book or two if they can, or have room, before they come to visit this summer.

again i was just curious if any members here might know. it was more of a spontaneous question with no expectation.

thanks again.
scratching thick hair'd head,
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"

"greentreee"
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