Abandoning past practice commitments

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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby dorje e gabbana » Fri May 25, 2012 7:42 pm

:smile:
Last edited by dorje e gabbana on Fri May 25, 2012 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby dorje e gabbana » Fri May 25, 2012 7:43 pm

Tashi delek,

Very interesting post.

But want also to add the fact that there are other Samayas in Dzogchen.
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=8307


Kalden yundrung, thank you very much for your interest and for having posted the Lopon teaching. Very interesting
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 25, 2012 7:47 pm

dorje e gabbana wrote:By the way it sounds strange hearing people claiming that CNNR just teaches Dzog chen as an indipendent vehicle.


What was said was that ChNN teaches that Dzogchen is an independent path; no one said he does not also teach there are other ways to approach Dzogchen.



In The Santi maha sanga training you must:

complete Ngondro


Not in the way you imagine. But this is a first level requirement, so I am not going to discuss it.

Practising tza sum, that is 3 roots: guru, deva e dakini mantra accumulating at list one bum for each one


Visualizing clearly the Three Roots of the Anuyoga practice - Guru (Padma Thötrengtsal), Deva (Guru Tragpo or Guru Tragphur) and Dakini (Simhamukha) - and connecting the concentration with recitation of the mantra, for each of the Three Roots:
• According to recitation based on quantity, one must do seven hundred thousand, five hundred thousand or at least three hundred thousand recitations.
• According to recitation (based on quality) with perfect visualization integrated with the reciting of the mantra (singing the melody in the case of Padma Thötrengtsal) one must dedicate at least three weeks of recitation (in retreat).


So you have a choice between time and number.

So he asks people seriously committed in getting semde, londe, mennagde teachings, to practice before the standard tantric set of practice required by all Nyma masters.


Another misconception.

And it is very very good, and also nornal in a serious way to teach dzogchen, even if for some people used to get only external teaching form CNNR it seems very strange


SMS is not for everyone. Only for people who are interested.

M
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 25, 2012 7:49 pm

dorje e gabbana wrote:So don’t go around claiming to be some great Dzogchen meditator when in fact you are nothing but a farting lout, stinking of alcohol and rank with lust


It would be nice if you followed this advice, and behaved a little more humbly yourself.
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 25, 2012 7:51 pm

dorje e gabbana wrote:What is your real contribution to this discussion in terms of contents, so far ? ZERO


Oh, and you have made a real contribution? All you have done since showing up is spread fractious contention, as well as demonstrated rudeness, arrogance and pride.

But you have not made one substantially valuable post since appearing here.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri May 25, 2012 7:52 pm

dorje e gabbana wrote:By the way it sounds strange hearing people claiming that CNNR just teaches Dzog chen as an indipendent vehicle.

In The Santi maha sanga training you must:

complete Ngondro
Practising tza sum, that is 3 roots: guru, deva e dakini mantra accumulating at list one bum for each one

So he asks people seriously committed in getting semde, londe, mennagde teachings, to practice before the standard tantric set of practice required by all Nyma masters.

And it is very very good, and also nornal in a serious way to teach dzogchen, even if for some people used to get only external teaching form CNNR it seems very strange :twothumbsup:


Being a simpleton I interpreted the statements of Garab Dorje to mean that first one receives Direct Introduction and the next sign of progress is to becomes free from doubt about the state we experience. He didn't say 'first spend time reciting mantras and after a set number you'll be permitted to make progress'.

As I say, simplistic as I'm new to it, but you get my drift.
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri May 25, 2012 7:58 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:
dorje e gabbana wrote:By the way it sounds strange hearing people claiming that CNNR just teaches Dzog chen as an indipendent vehicle.

In The Santi maha sanga training you must:

complete Ngondro
Practising tza sum, that is 3 roots: guru, deva e dakini mantra accumulating at list one bum for each one

So he asks people seriously committed in getting semde, londe, mennagde teachings, to practice before the standard tantric set of practice required by all Nyma masters.

And it is very very good, and also nornal in a serious way to teach dzogchen, even if for some people used to get only external teaching form CNNR it seems very strange :twothumbsup:


Being a simpleton I interpreted the statements of Garab Dorje to mean that first one receives Direct Introduction and the next sign of progress is to becomes free from doubt about the state we experience. He didn't say 'first spend time reciting mantras and after a set number you'll be permitted to make progress'.

As I say, simplistic as I'm new to it, but you get my drift.



Tashi delek,

But we shouldn't forget that which goes before, regarding the Direct Introduction.
I guess that is counting for the moment and if that is ok well go then for Introduction.

For instance to renew the vision about / with Samsara. Very good that kilt with layers during Kordo Rushen. Here one can act as a madman or wildman, good for eleminating frust etc. Yes i would recommend that what goes before....

Mutsog Marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby dorje e gabbana » Fri May 25, 2012 8:00 pm

Oh, and you have made a real contribution? All you have done since showing up is spread fractious contention, as well as demonstrated rudeness, arrogance and pride.

But you have not made one substantially valuable post since appearing here.


Be good Malcom, and please recall the admin request not to enter in personal consideration.
So, mind your business.
Take it easy and enjoy life instead to react to everything

I dropped it and you do the same :twothumbsup:
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby dorje e gabbana » Fri May 25, 2012 8:04 pm

also marigpa learn to drop it and relax
Is it so difficult? hahahhahah :jumping:
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Mr. G » Fri May 25, 2012 8:10 pm

Inge wrote:Hi!
A few years ago I prematurely attended some teachings and empowerments that were given with lifetime daily practice commitments. Afterwards I struggeled immensely with these practices for maybe a half year of so, but they made no sense to me, and I ended up doing them out of guilt, and fear of vajra hell. Then I gave them up alltogether. Now I only try to follow the teachings of ChNN, do Guru Yoga when I remember, and other DC practices when I have time and energy, but I still fear negative consequenses for abandoning past practice commitments. This is due to the snake in the bamboo image. I find in unreasonable to go to Vajra hell just for attending some teachings. I might understand if it was do to some kind of practices that manipulated the pranas, etc., that if done wrongly might lead to madness, etc., but just for attending empowerments and teachings? It does not make sense. I was thinking at the time that going could only be a good thing, that nothing bad could come from attending. So this was my motivation. I did not know anything about the teacher, lineage, teachings, practices, etc. So in this case, what am I to do?


Josef wrote:Try not to worry about it so much.
The more you attend teaching with ChNN the more clear it will become that you are going to be ok and that Ati Guru Yoga is sufficient.
You can integrate all of your commitments into your practice of Guru Yoga.



Malcolm wrote:
Inge wrote:Hi!
A few years ago I prematurely attended some teachings and empowerments that were given with lifetime daily practice commitments. Afterwards I struggeled immensely with these practices for maybe a half year of so, but they made no sense to me, and I ended up doing them out of guilt, and fear of vajra hell. Then I gave them up alltogether. Now I only try to follow the teachings of ChNN, do Guru Yoga when I remember, and other DC practices when I have time and energy, but I still fear negative consequenses for abandoning past practice commitments. This is due to the snake in the bamboo image. I find in unreasonable to go to Vajra hell just for attending some teachings. I might understand if it was do to some kind of practices that manipulated the pranas, etc., that if done wrongly might lead to madness, etc., but just for attending empowerments and teachings? It does not make sense. I was thinking at the time that going could only be a good thing, that nothing bad could come from attending. So this was my motivation. I did not know anything about the teacher, lineage, teachings, practices, etc. So in this case, what am I to do?


Don't worry about it at all. With Ati Guru Yoga you are going into the essence of all teachings.

M


Malcolm wrote:
"First of all, when you take a a Tantric Initiation, you're given a water to drink. And this is called the water of one's vows, of one's promises. When you drink that water you've taken a kind of oath. You've sworn to follow that which you are about to commit yourself to. Many people do not know all this and collect hundreds of of different initiations. If one does this and then does nothing about these commitments, far from having done yourself good, what you have done is created obstacles and impediments for yourself.

What do you have to do? You have to maintain the transmission. If you're a practitioner of Dzogchen and understand the principle involved, and you don't remain in some boxed-in limited conditions, you can for all of these commitments made carry them to the level of Guruyoga. Whatever transmissions you have received, you can take them to the level of their unification,and at that level practice the Guruyoga. In such a case it all becomes positive. That is to say, you're acting to deepen and develop all these transmissions you have received.

You have to remember that this is the way of seeing of a Dzogchen practitioner. If one lives limited and boxed in to some level of teaching, then that's not the case for you. But you have to therefore understand and see through the limits of the traditions and systems.


Talks in OZ, 1982 ppg 171-172

M


As the OP's question as a student of ChNN has been answered from the POV of ChNN and the DC Community, this topic has been locked.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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