Abandoning past practice commitments

Blue Garuda
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri May 25, 2012 9:07 am

So to cut this into a brief concluding statement:

From the Dzogchen POV the performance of Ati Guruyoga keeps all samayas.

From the Tantric POV samayas can/cannot be returned, but either way there is an anxiety about dropping the practice commitments.

It is not possible to simultaneously practice from both Points of View.

The conclusion I draw then is that from a Dzogchen POV one may practice Vajrayana etc. but it is not necessary and may actually confuse the mind, cause anxiety, and interfere with progress, like trying to ride two horses at once, unless one has great skill.

The choice is not between Vajrayana as taught by some Gurus and Dzogchen as taught by some other Dzogchen teachers- the choice in this case is to regard what CHNNR teaches as reliable or to stick withe the Vajrayana POV of your Vajrayana teacher and not engage with ChNNR if it differs.

That's my grasp of it as a person examining the same issues.
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Sönam
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Sönam » Fri May 25, 2012 9:34 am

Vajrayana is the path of transformation.
Dzogchen is the path of self-liberation.
Dzogjrayana is the path of transformation of the self-liberation.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby heart » Fri May 25, 2012 9:51 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Sönam » Fri May 25, 2012 10:01 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Adamantine
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Adamantine » Fri May 25, 2012 10:07 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Adamantine » Fri May 25, 2012 10:09 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Sönam
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Sönam » Fri May 25, 2012 10:27 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

Blue Garuda
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri May 25, 2012 11:35 am

Well, in this thread we seem to have a view from ChNNR's students, which it seems is supported by quotes.

I myself have heard him teach that the Yanas are not dependent on each other, and that Dzogchen is a complete practice within itself.

I was a little loose in using 'Dzogchen perspective' but did clarify that it related to ChNNR's teachings specifically, as does this thread.

I also clearly stated that it was not about other teachers of Dzogchen nor about the various teachers of Vajrayana, but specific to the anxiety being expressed about using the Guruyoga taught by ChNNR to fulfil samayas people have from their Vajrayana empowerments (Practice Commitments and Vows).

Some posts back I asked for that very very simple clarification, which I'll rephrase here:


1. Practice commitments up to and including HYT.

2. Tantric Vows.

Please could someone be precise about how each of those two Vajrayana elements is satisfied in Dzogchen as presented by ChNNR.

Which Dzogchen practice(s) taught by ChNNR fulfill HYT practice commitments and therefore replace the Vajrayana practices?



Based on the answers in the thread, I have drawn a few conclusions. I didn't say they were my views, just my stab at trying to grasp what seems like a very slippery eel.

It seems that there are now more disagreements emerging between ChNNR's followers on this thread about what he meant when he taught various things.

I am now concluding that whilst there is clarity in some people's minds about exactly what the relationship is between Vajrayana commitments and the practices taught by ChNNR, other followers seem not to have heard those teachings or they interpret them very differently. This is not at all good to find on a thread where clarity is required.

I'm sure the advice is all well-meaning, but I think the differences in view would have been better on a Dzogchen equivalent of 'Tantra Talk' where an individual poses a question and others respond via PM. At least then only one person is exposed to the differences in views rather than the many people who are probably viewing this thread and wondering what conclusion to draw, other than that ChNNR's followers do not share a clear single POV about his teachings.
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Pero
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Pero » Fri May 25, 2012 11:36 am

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Pero » Fri May 25, 2012 11:44 am

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Blue Garuda
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri May 25, 2012 12:01 pm

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Pero
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Pero » Fri May 25, 2012 12:05 pm

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

rai
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby rai » Fri May 25, 2012 12:16 pm


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Malcolm
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 25, 2012 12:26 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Blue Garuda
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri May 25, 2012 12:37 pm

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dorje e gabbana
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby dorje e gabbana » Fri May 25, 2012 1:03 pm

Last edited by dorje e gabbana on Fri May 25, 2012 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sönam
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Sönam » Fri May 25, 2012 1:19 pm

Dzogchen practitioners have to become independant ... ChNN
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

Mariusz
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Mariusz » Fri May 25, 2012 1:26 pm


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Sönam
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Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Sönam » Fri May 25, 2012 1:33 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

Mariusz
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: Abandoning past practice commitments

Postby Mariusz » Fri May 25, 2012 2:01 pm



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