Dzogchen and the concept of progress....

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Re: Dzogchen and the concept of progress....

Postby asunthatneversets » Fri May 25, 2012 9:04 am

Andrew108 wrote:I've been reviewing this thread in light of the huge Dzogchen and Buddhism thread. During the Dzogchen and Buddhism thread I came round to the view that contrivance is really important. Contrived practice and the notion of progress plays really well with the Dzogchen view. Just to have Dzogchen by itself with no progress to be made or just to be interested in 'my primordial potentiality' seems impoverished and more like an obstacle. We need these conceptual practices and ideas of progress because otherwise we might get 'lost' in Dzogchen. It's not right to only want the essence of the teachings.


"The pure mind, the ubiquitous essence -
it is spontaneously, originally, perfect;
so strenuous engagement with the ten techniques
is unnecessary, superfluous.


...I am inscrutable and cannot be cultivated.
All the ten techniques are likewise transcended,
so nothing can be done to affect me.
Those who try to approach me on a causal path,
desirous of catching a glimpse of my face,
seeking me through the ten techniques,
fall straight to earth like a tenderfoot sky-walker,
tumbling down due to deliberate effort.

I, the supreme source, I am the revelation,
and transcend every sphere of activity,
so a view of me cannot be cultivated,
and the ten techniques are meaningless.
If you still think that the ten techniques have purpose,
look at me, and finding nothing to see,
taking no view, remain at that zero-point.
Nothing ever separates us from unoriginated simplicity,
so vows and discipline are redundant;
the essence is always spontaneously present,
so any effort to find it is always superfluous;
self-sprung awareness has never been obscured,
so gnostic awareness cannot be generated;
everybody already lives on my level,
so there is no place to reach through purification;
I embrace all and everything,
so there can be no path that leads to me;
I am forever incapable of dualization,
so there is never anything to be labeled 'subtle';
my form embraces everything,
so there has never been any 'duality';
I am self-sprung awareness from the very beginning,
so I can never be nailed down;
since I am the heart of total presence,
there is no other source of secret precepts."
- Samantabhadra
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Re: Dzogchen and the concept of progress....

Postby Andrew108 » Fri May 25, 2012 9:09 am

The idea of not progressing is an obstacle. The idea that all progressing has been done is an obstacle. My intention is to progress and progress and progress and and .....glad I finally cleared this one up.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
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Re: Dzogchen and the concept of progress....

Postby asunthatneversets » Fri May 25, 2012 9:51 am

Andrew108 wrote:The idea of not progressing is an obstacle. The idea that all progressing has been done is an obstacle. My intention is to progress and progress and progress and and .....glad I finally cleared this one up.


You're absolutely right, accepting (or rejecting) an idea that progression is meaningless (or meaningful) is surely an obstacle.
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