Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

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Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby Inge » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:34 pm

When I do meditation practice I usually recite the prayer "Supplication to the Kagyu Lineage". When I recite the lines "To this meditator who is not attached to food and wealth", "To this meditator who continually supplicates him", and "To this meditator who rest simply without altering it", it feels like I'm lying since I am attached to food and wealth, especially food, I do not continually supplicate the guru, and I do not rest simply without altering it. Is this in fact lying, and if so, would it be better to stop reciting that prayer until I no longer are attached to food and wealth etc.?
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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby ground » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:08 pm

I am not qualified to say anything about the Kagyu lineage or its practices. But I remembered the words of a Nyingma lama when I read your post. He once said something like: Even if you do not have the authentic feeling, keep on and try at least to pretend. Do not give up. It somehow meant that if pretense is mixed with devotion, the real longing to have those qualities, then pretense will transform into authenticity.
I think that is really very good advice!
Never give up. There will definitely be blessings through the prayer which will have the desired effect through merits.

:namaste:
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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby Sonam Wangchug » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:03 pm

The version I follow does not say to this meditator who is not attached to food and wealth. Rather it is said in a different way.

ZÉ NOR KÜN LA CHAK ZHEN MÉ PA DANG
Attachment to food and wealth disappears

TSEN DIR DÖ TAK CHÖ PAY GOM CHEN LA
To the meditator who gives up ties to this life,

Hope this helps clarify your problems
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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby Inge » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:10 pm

TMingyur wrote:I am not qualified to say anything about the Kagyu lineage or its practices. But I remembered the words of a Nyingma lama when I read your post. He once said something like: Even if you do not have the authentic feeling, keep on and try at least to pretend. Do not give up. It somehow meant that if pretense is mixed with devotion, the real longing to have those qualities, then pretense will transform into authenticity.
I think that is really very good advice!
Never give up. There will definitely be blessings through the prayer which will have the desired effect through merits.

:namaste:

Thanks TMingyur, that is interesting, and hopefully also true.
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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby Inge » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:14 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:The version I follow does not say to this meditator who is not attached to food and wealth. Rather it is said in a different way.

ZÉ NOR KÜN LA CHAK ZHEN MÉ PA DANG
Attachment to food and wealth disappears

TSEN DIR DÖ TAK CHÖ PAY GOM CHEN LA
To the meditator who gives up ties to this life,

Hope this helps clarify your problems


That gives those lines a somewhat new meaning. If that translation is closer to the original I wouldn't feel quite so hipocritical reciting them.
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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby Rafael Maurin » Sun May 20, 2012 12:03 am

here translation I know...



Dorje Chang Thung Prayer





DO JE CHANG CHEN TE LO NA RO DANG
Great Vajradhara, Tilopa, Naropa,

MAR PA MI LA CHO JE GAM PO PA
Marpa, Milarepa, Lord of Dharma Gampopa.

DHU SUM SHE JA KUN KHYEN KAR MA PA
Knower of the Three Times, omniscient Karmapa;

CHE SHI CHUNG GYE GYUD PA ZIN NAM DHANG.
lineage holders of the four Great and eight lesser schools;

DRI TAG TS'HAL SUM PAL DEN DRUG PA SOG.
Drigung, Taglung, Tsalpa, Glorious Drugpa and others;

ZAB LAM CHAG GYA CHE LA NGA NYE PEI.
you who have mastered the profound path of Mahamudra,

NYAM ME DRO GON DHAG PO KA GYU LA.
the Dagpo Kagyu, unrivaled protectors of sentient beings;

SOL WA DEP SO KAGYUD LA MA NAM.
I pray to you, Kagyu lamas;

GYU PA ZIN NO NAM T'HAR JIN GYI LOP.
grant your blessing that I may follow your tradition and example.



ZHEN LOG GOM GYI KANG PAR SUNG PA ZHIN.
As it taught, detachment is the foot of meditation;

ZE NOR KUN LA CHAG SHEN MED PA DANG.
attachment to food and wealth disappears.

TSE DIR DOE THAG CHO PEI GOM CHEN LA.
To the meditator who gives up the ties to this life,

NYED KUR SHEN PA MED PAR JIN GYI LOB.
grant your blessing that attachment to ownership and honour cease.



MO GU GOM GYI GO WOR SUNG PA SHIN.
As is taught, devotion is the head of meditation;

MEN NGAG TER GO JE PEI LA MA LA.
the lama opens the door to the profound oral teachings.

GYUN DU SOL WA DEB PEI GOM CHEN LA.
To the meditator who always turns to him,

CHO MIN MO GU KYE WAR JIN GYI LOB.
grant your blessing that uncontrived devotion be born within.



YENG ME GOM GYI NGO SHIR SUNG PA SHIN.
As is taught, unwavering attention is the body of meditation;

GANG SHAR TOG PEI NGO WO SO MA DE.
whatever arises is the fresh nature of thought.

MA CHO DE KAR JOG PEI GOM CHEN LA.
To the meditator who rests there in naturalness,

GOM JA LO DANG DRAL WAR JIN GYI LOB.
grant your blessing that meditation be free from intellectualization.



NAM TOG NGO WO CHO KUR SUNG PA SHIN.
As is taught, the essence of thoughts is dharmakaya;

CHI YANG MA YIN CHIR YANG CHAR WA LA.
they are nothing whatsoever and yet they arise.

MA GAG ROL PAR CHAR WEI GOM CHEN LA.
To the meditator who reflects upon the unobstructed play of the mind,

KHOR DE YER ME TOG PAR JIN GYI LOB.
grant your blessing that the inseperability of samsara and nirvana be realized.



KYE WA KUN TU YANG DAG LA MA DANG.
Through all my births, may I not be seperated from the perfect lama

DRAL ME CHO KYI PAL LA LONG CHO CHING.
and so enjoy the glory of the Dharma.

SA DANG LAM GYI YON TEN RAB ZOG NE.
May I completely accomplish the qualities of the path and stages

DO JE CHANG GI GO PHANG NYUR THOB SHOG.
and quickly attain the state of Vajradhara.
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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby Paul » Sun May 20, 2012 12:23 am

I reccomend looking at Tony Duff's translation of the prayer, which you can download for free here: http://www.tibet.dk/pktc/kagyu_texts.htm
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby mindyourmind » Sun May 20, 2012 6:16 am

I was also taught that this is the setting of your intentions, setting goals and standards to work towards.

If your intention is to reach these stages, then it is ok to say the prayer, and then you work towards that.
It also acts as a benchmark to regularly check your own behaviour against - "I am praying this, am I actually doing this, or trying to?".

This is a beautiful and very powerful prayer.
There are some videos on it by some senior Kagyu lamas on Youtube last time I checked, Thrangu Rinpoche in particular.
As bad as bad becomes its not a part of you

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Re: Questions about "supplication to the Kagyu Lineage"

Postby In the bone yard » Thu May 24, 2012 10:45 pm

Good post.

The experiences will be realized on the path. After the pointing out.

Like most practices people discuss here, most are too advanced.
If you have to ask so many questions then it's probably not for you.

A genuine one-on-one teacher is not going to give teachings you can't grasp.
This is part of the process of getting close to the teacher.
The only way to see the pointing out is to remain GENUINE with a one-on-one teacher and many years of practice (actual meditation).

If you are a genuine student then it is vital you seek out a teacher (tulku or rinpoche who possesses the lineage).
We learn from the teacher and actual meditation, not from books and discussion boards.

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