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What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them - Dhamma Wheel

What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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andre9999
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What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby andre9999 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:29 pm

Not really surprising, but I always find it interesting to see scientific backing for Buddhism.


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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby Individual » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:57 pm

I like the article, but if one is practicing meditation, they do not seek information to confirm what they already believe; they seek information to learn what they don't yet know and challenge their present delusions. So, we should be more interested in seeing scientific refutations of Buddhist doctrine.
The best things in life aren't things.


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andre9999
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby andre9999 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:33 pm


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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby Individual » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:52 pm

A better meditator would feel equanimity rather than simple pleasure -- all the time, regardless of the external environment.
The best things in life aren't things.


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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby Kenshou » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:02 pm

What about an even better meditator?

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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby Individual » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:27 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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tiltbillings
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:33 pm


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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby andre9999 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:46 pm


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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby Individual » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:52 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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andre9999
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby andre9999 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:23 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:26 am


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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby andre9999 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:35 am


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kirk5a
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby kirk5a » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:28 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby Individual » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:20 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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m0rl0ck
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:53 am

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby alan » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:56 am

Probably useful to ask what these Zen guys were doing. Shikantaza? Or MU?
And then we must follow up and decide if there are better meditative practices. That question was not even addressed.

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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:29 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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son of dhamma
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby son of dhamma » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:28 am

Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:47 am


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son of dhamma
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Re: What Zen Meditators Don't Think About Won't Hurt Them

Postby son of dhamma » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:00 am

The chain of dependent origination? Buddhism? :|
From ignorance arises volitional formation, kamma is the encactment of volitional formation.
From volitional formation arises consciousness,
from consciousness arise mental and physical phenomena (i.e. the physical-mental phenomenological world).
I think that Buddhism clearly consists of this view, and I've read this same refutation in many Theravada sources. It is the kamma of passing-away beings that causes the planes beneath the fourth-jhanic planes to reform and repopulate. Worlds do not exist during the 64th dissolution phase.
So we have the chain of dependent origination and Abhidhamma clearly and explicitly making this point and refuting the claim that mind, consciousness, and the arising of living beings is dependent on matter.
That you should claim Buddhism doesn't refute this materialist thinking is peculiar. :| Why?
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.


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